Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

(The split decision, G2, 20 July) contends that the current Labour party crisis parallels events in 1981 – which led to the formation of the SDP – and that Jeremy Corbyn is a similar figure now to Michael Foot then: “a faintly otherworldly leftwinger in his late 60s”. This suggestion is misleading because it ignores the fact that our “Overton window” – through which the boundaries between political orthodoxy and heresy are defined – has shifted very considerably to the right in the past 30 years. Political philosophies and policies that would in 1981 have seemed “loony right” are now viewed as mainstream, and formerly social-democrat positions are commonly reviled as somehow Marxist.

They lost the last election partly because they had the wrong leader [imo]. I'm saying this as someone who backed Ed at the beginning. They need someone that will motivate everyone, not just the part faithful. Politics is a nasty business these days won by clever advertising and catchy soundbites. Having said that, we're not the 'yes' people that are in the Tory party; it's never been an easy ride being in the Labour Party. But can we all remember that, at the end of the day, we all want the same thing so please lets not fight amongst ourselves too much, but try to understand where we're all coming from.

I know my history Devorgilla and I am one of those people. I strongly believe as do a number of others (Owen Jones etc) that the Overton window is moving towards the left. In the 1980s and 90s it moved right. The Conservatives know this you only have to listen to the language they are now using referring to equality and social justice. You only have to look at the number of people active in campaigns such as Bring back British Rail to see there is a real appetite for change. The vote for Jeremy Corbyn was an indication of what is happening. Unfortunately the PLP is still stuffed with people stuck in the 90s. As I have said the Labour party has become indistinguishable from the Tories. The public look at them and decide they may as well keep the party they have than trade for one almost identical. That is why Labour lost the last election.

as long as Corbyn is leader he will build social housing, halt the bedroom tax, stop all the unjust benefit cuts, close food banks, give the homeless shelter, save the NHS , feed the poor and all without winning an election.

trisher, we need the middle class vote to get the power to change things. Most governments have to compromise. Many of those described as 'middle class' are the great grandchildren and grandchildren of miners, dockers, parlour maids, farm labourers, factory workers to name but a few occupations from my own heritage. They became what is termed middle class because those who went before them voted into power Labour Governments to give them the chance to change society from within. Some forgot from whence they came and moved into the elite but a great many more did not and still continue that struggle for greater equality and justice. If we are never in power again how do you see us changing society. A proletariat uprising on the streets and perhaps a dictatorship of the workers to impose the new order?

True Yggdrasil , but the country has change so much and there was no UKIP, SNP etc then

Corbyn isn't 'far left', he is of the old traditional Labour line that set the country back on its feet after WWII
1945 election
Every one thought Churchill would win. Labour did by a landslide. Attlee said "We are facing a new era and I believe that the voting at this election has shown that the people of Britain are facing that new era with the same courage as they faced the long years of war."

The long years of austerity after the global financial collapse are not the same as the long years of war.
But there is something of the same challenge here.

Grscesgran, I apologised for thinking you were a Labour Party member and didn't know you were a liberal ,mi find attack you and would not have apologised fir something I had not done, I made an error in the party I thought you supported and do apologised for this

Anniebach Tue 26-Jul-16 11:58:32
How on earth do you decide that Trisher was mocking "the years that brought in ..."

Some may think Corbyn is extreme but I have seen anti-Corbyn comments that are more extreme than I have seen for a long time on GN. I do notice that more and more are very personal rather than being about beliefs suggesting little argument is available to put forward.

I am still rather puzzled why you thought it OK to attack me personally Annie when you thought I was a LP member but apologised when you understood I am not. Surely you are not personally the keeper of the LP values; I would have thought they belonged to all the members some of whom - who is to say that it may not be a majority of whom - may disagree with your point of view.

Biggest mistake a labour government made was the Iraq war. Voted for by the house

You mocked Trisher with your comment on the red flag. Do you really expect labour to win an election without reaching out to middle England. Every Labour government has made mistakes , all governments do.

Fact - the country will not vote for a far left party

You put one person above the party, I put the party first , I am not voting for Smith for any other reason than I have never failed to vote and I cannot vote for Corbyn . I accept Corbyn will win the leadership contest but he will never win a general election and I want a labour government , I am left of centre but will support a centre Labour Party who can win and can help the vunerable . Momentum rallies will not build social houses, help the homeless , stop the Tory government persecuting the poorest .

Corbyn may walk on water but this will not bring in the votes we need to form a labour government and this is what matters to me

I don't think I have mocked any of Labour's achievements, but there were mistakes made which I won't list because I have no desire to provide fuel for the right wing posters. The only contender for the leadership has strong links to those mistakes, a dodgy past and has been available to the highest bidder for hire as a lobbyist. He is unlikely to be seen as an honest politician by anyone who reads his history. As I have said before the Tories have occupied the middle ground in rhetoric if not in fact and Labour will struggle to show they are any different to them.

It wasn't even a sorce close to Grumppa , it was an aide , do they make comments to the media without knowledge of their office

In journalism speak "a source close to the leader's (or chairman's or minister's or whoever's) office" usually means someone saying something on behalf of the leader with which the leader agrees but which he does not want directly attributed to him.

Draw your own conclusions.

And you Trisher want the Labour Party in the wilderness

Mock the years labour brought in

the minimum wage.

Sure Start

Freedom of information act

Tax credits

Pension credits for the elderly

Educational maintained allowance which reduced in

Rise in number of eighteen year olds entering university

Crime rates were halved

It took 14 years to get through the wilderness years and suffering under thatcher

Carry on mocking Trisher and Co

Annie as you want the party to be in power more than anything else The Pink Flag might be more appropriate
The people’s flag is palest pink,
It's not as red as most think.
We must not let the people know
What socialists thought long ago.
Don't let the scarlet banner float;
We want the middle classes' vote.
Let our old fashioned comrades sneer,
We'll stay in power for many a year

Easily Tegan, it has been easy for some in this country to relate to a man like Corbyn so why not the Americans to Trump ,

Yes Devorgilla, I had a battle because I wanted The Red Flag played , and won I certainly do not want it played if I am forced to leave my party

Burial service? Labour Party?

Eh?

I have a daughter who lives in America and she too dreads it. Let's just hope Nostradamus got it wrong.

Surely it is not that drastic yet AB.

I agree that they should form the Momentum Party and stand on that ticket.

I really am terrified at the prospect of Trump being elected in America, which I now think is a possibility. But I just don't get how people who feel their voices are neglected can vote for such a two faced person. How can they relate to a man like Trump? Just as I can't understand Labour voters turning to UKIP. I think the worlds gone mad. If I didn't have children and grandchildren I'd just hide away somewhere and bury my head in the sand.

Michael Foster is taking the Labour Party to court today, I don't think he will win but another labour donor has just been interviewed and he too is withdrawing financial support from the Labour Party. This leaves the party even more dependant on financial support from the unions.

I think the fair way out of this mess is separate parties, the 170 MP's remain as the Labour Party and the rest form the Momentum party

Wish they would sort it out quickly, I want to know if I have to change the arrangements for my burial service

I agree with both TriciaF re the media - so biased to the right that it is now printing things in favour of what they see as the lesser left in order to mask the travails of the government and also with Devorgilla.

If you suppress people you will have an uprising. We have long since stopped chopping off the heads of leaders we feel suppress parts of the population but it is and still can be how both the good and the bad can come to power.

Interesting comparison , trump supporters and Corbyn supporters .