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Brexit watch, round 2

(1001 Posts)
petra Thu 21-Jul-16 20:35:01

Jalima Some people are having difficulty understanding that the remain camp lost the vote. They failed. They lost. They came second.

Washerwoman Fri 22-Jul-16 17:04:43

Mean flits you away.Honestly !
Not at all Tegan.I respect you're not happy and you're worried.But it's been one month and endless you prophesying doom and looking for every negative is rather depressing.I'm damned sure if the result had been Remain DH and I would have been disappointed but would have accepted it and hoped for the best deal out of staying in the EU.We're certainly not Nigel Farage fans and his regrettable poster and posters on buses had nothing to do with our vote.It's something we've wanted for a long time
So I'm departing this thread and going to enjoy a lovely family weekend.with some retainers and leavers.

MargaretX Fri 22-Jul-16 18:52:50

daphne This is not new that Germany wants Brits to come to work.They have offered apprenticeships to Spain as well and got hundreds of replies. The crux is the language, it has been sadly neglected in UK schools and perhpas it may be introduced again.
This business about Frankfurt is also not new just that they see their chance now and like a dog with a bone they are not going to let up. Banking is in English but you have to know German to know what the Germans are saying amongst themselves.
By the way. Fr Merkel spoke no English when she came to power (she had been to school in the GDR and had learned Russian)and now obviously speaks it well enough to converse
with Theresa May.
My personal worry is that Brexit will harm the EU just when that TRump has been successful and might go on to be president.

daphnedill Fri 22-Jul-16 19:11:11

I know the language is a problem, Margaret. I'm a self-employed German teacher, so ironically this is all quite good for me. hmm Most of my students are still at school, but I have three adults and an increasing number of enquiries.

This is a great time to learn German, because there are some really fantastic resources available on 'Deutsche Welle' and the 'Goethe Institut'. I assume they're being subsidised by the government, aimed at all the recently arrived immigrants.

By the way, the language is less of a problem to scientists, because English is the language of science. One of my adults worked in Germany for two years, picking up enough German to cope with shopping, etc. He now wants to go back permanently and eventually apply for citizenship, which is why he's taking lessons.

MargaretX Fri 22-Jul-16 22:20:11

Yes DD2 is doing research, and they often have to write it up for non German speakers. then its useful to have Mum online to tidy up the English their translation.

whitewave Sat 23-Jul-16 08:14:39

1 Month since the vote.

The first economic check since Brexit sounds alarm.

B of E and Treasury to attempt to prevent the UK economy from falling into recession, Why?
Because there has been the most severe downturn in activity since the financial banking crises.
Service industries in particular are badly hit.
Manufacturing dropped to lowest level since 2013
The composite index which includes both manufacturing and services shows a drop from 52.4 in June to 47.7. Anything below 50 signals a contraction in the economy.
The economy is on course to shrink by 0.4%
What can the BofE do?
Cut interest rates, but given the low level they are already at, and given that low interest rates have made little difference in the past few years, this may produce little result.
QE will almost certainly be resumed.
Sterling has dropped yet again.

These are some of the facts of the consequence of Brexit over the past month.

Deniers will call it doom and gloom, just as deniers called it project fear.

granjura Sat 23-Jul-16 10:09:16

In the USA, exactly what happened here: don't listen to experts, they are just scare mongerers. Obama says it so much better than I ever would:

www.facebook.com/BusinessInsider.Politics/videos/1015027085240290/

Tegan Sat 23-Jul-16 10:37:51

I read somewhere that the government have closed down a department that helped with apprenticeships etc; something that EU money seemed to be going towards. Maybe it was a link on here about things they've pushed through in the last week of parliament.I'll try to find the article.

whitewave Sat 23-Jul-16 10:39:34

Excellent. What a splendid orator he is. He always pitches his oratory at the absolute right level.

whitewave Sat 23-Jul-16 10:40:58

A number of departments, including climate change have either been axed or have been cut because of the astronomical cost of Brexit.

whitewave Sat 23-Jul-16 10:50:39

The Brexiteers might like to reflect on part of Obamas speech.

" Rejection of facts, rejection of reason....... That is the path to decline"

"It isn't cool to reject (the experts).... And to not know .... It isn't cool to "tell it like it is or to get real" - that's just not knowing"

granjura Sat 23-Jul-16 12:43:52

In the meantime- the French, as expected- are flexing their muscles and showing the Brits that being Islanders has its disadvantages. Border controls and police can of course hold up traffic for hours and days on end- checking all cars, all papers, all lorries... holding up tourists this week-end- but also imports and exports - making life a misery.

Kent Police said there are delays of between three and five hours on roads into Dover. Motorists have described the traffic as "horrendous".

Checks have now been relaxed and waiting time at the holding area is 40 minutes, the port said.

P&O Ferries said it would hold sailings to ensure people could travel.

It refused to comment on reports some ferries had been leaving empty or with very few customers on board.
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Media captionRichard Beeken has been waiting on the A20 near Dover since Friday evening

France has been under a state of emergency since last November.

It was brought in after terror attacks in Paris on 13 November left 130 people dead.
'Tense atmosphere'

The port said French border control booths at Dover had been "seriously understaffed overnight" during an "exceptional security situation".

It said it had raised concerns over French manning levels with the UK Government earlier this week, which had raised the issue with its French counterparts.
Image caption There are lengthy waits at the port with many people stranded overnight and huge numbers stuck in traffic.

Highways England said the A2 is at a "standstill" and is advising people to use the M20/A20.

Kent County Council said it will deliver 11,000 bottles of water to drivers stuck in traffic. Kent Police has advised people to pack food and water.
Image copyright Roxy Birch
Image caption Some passengers had to wait four hours to get through border controls

There are no delays at the Channel Tunnel terminal but people have been told it will take 90 minutes to check in due to extra security procedures.

No problems have been reported at other major ferry ports.
'Uncomfortable'

Those stuck in the queues have described the situation as "tragic" and said people had been given little information.

Renata Roslak said she and her husband left Birmingham at 19:00 BST on Friday and still had not reached the port.

She said: "It's absolutely horrendous. We have maybe moved half a mile in the last eight hours.

"There isn't even somewhere to turn around and head home.

"I even phoned the police to find out what was happening - we were told that there weren't enough staff to cope with the extra security checks, so ferries are leaving but they aren't full."
Image copyright PA
Image caption Increased checks at the Port of Dover came after the terrorist attack in Paris in November

Sonia Tutt, 38, on her way to Germany with more than a dozen others in a convoy, said: "Everyone is out of their vehicles, kids are playing football."

She added: "There's not been one police car or anything. When we went to join the motorway there was no indication you were likely to be sitting here all night."
'Struggling in heat'

Kris Mazur spent the night on the A20 and said he had moved about one mile in 10 hours.

He said people were standing around at the edge of the road having picnics or sleeping in their cars.

He added: "There has been no access to food or toilets. The motorway is still completely blocked."
Image copyright Lemon Jelly
Image caption Twitter user Lemon Jelly said it has taken four hours to move half a mile.

Jack Donnelly from London said he had been stuck for more than seven hours.

He said they had not been given much information and families with children were especially struggling with the heat.

"People are helping each other out but the atmosphere is starting to get tense," he added.
'Camping spirit'

Dale Savage was caught in the delays for 12 hours en route to his brother's wedding. He said: "There are a lot of kids here, a lot of young children - a lot of people want to go on their holidays.

"There are no real frustrations, the real problem was no one knew what was going on."

He described a "camping spirit... very much like Glastonbury" but without a band to see at the end of it.
Image copyright Jack Donnelly
Image caption One motorist described the atmosphere as 'like Glastonbury' but with no band at the end

Suzanne Holland said she had finally checked in for the 08:30 crossing - 12 hours after arriving in Dover.

"Anyone would be uncomfortable for that time especially with no information. Had we known we would have tried to sleep," she said.

One passenger, Julia Woodcock, spoke of her relief at finally boarding a ferry after six hours.

However, she added: "It was all good-humoured. We are onboard now and finally read to start our hols!"
Image copyright Kris Mazur
Image caption Roads leading to the Port of Dover have been hit with heavy traffic

People have taken to social media to vent their frustrations, including residents caught up in the traffic chaos.

One said on Twitter: "Late for work. Whole town of Dover is at a standstill. Been sat in my car for 3 hours with no movement."

P&O Ferries said in a tweet: "RMore on this story

Extra Frenest assured we'll get you on your way as soon as you pass the checks."

Ferry operator DFDS Seaways said it would put delayed customers on the first available sailing free of charge at check-in.

Granny2016 Sat 23-Jul-16 13:05:49

Granjura......Of course Switzerland is not the cheapest place to live,but your choice to go there is your business alone,and no one has a right to question you on it. You sound very resilient.

Granny2016 Sat 23-Jul-16 13:44:12

Granjura....the M20 is notorious at being clogged with non moving lorries.Dover is the busiest port in Europe and there are plans to build a new lorry park in Kent for up to 4,000 vehicles,due to tail backs which are suffered by French strikes and other protests.
We all know how the French like their protests and strikes!!
2 million lorries and almost 3 million cars pass through Dover annually.
UK schools broke up this week,we are in peak holiday season which is swelling the volume of traffic.

The French are not flexing their muscles because we voted to leave the EU.

Despite their high alert status against terrorism,French authorities failed dramatically last week and as a result over 80 men,women and children lost their lives with others in the balance or badly injured.
French authorities have suffered an angry backlash because of it,and are therefore implementing strict movement of vehicles into the country.
I would hope that they are thoroughly checking every single vehicle which crosses into their territory,which not only protects their own,but our own people on French soil.

These delays are not caused by Brexit.....They are caused by terrorism.

Granny2016 Sat 23-Jul-16 13:54:40

Strict border controls across countries in the EU should never have been stopped.

Mamie Sat 23-Jul-16 14:07:08

Also caused by insufficient staff on French border control at Dover apparently. Full checks (fair enough) but only three booths out of seven open. The Port of Dover issued a statement.
So glad the family aren't coming out to us today.

Granny2016 Sat 23-Jul-16 14:15:33

Mamie....There should certainly be more staff than that at peak times.The last time I passed through was 4 years ago on a motorbike.We were thoroughly checked over while several cars were waved through !!!

Mamie Sat 23-Jul-16 14:22:43

We cross several times a year and until recently you just got waved through French border control in Dover. The last couple of times we have been stopped and passports checked. It sounds as if they were doing extra checks without enough people as there was apparently only one person to do all the coach passengers.
We never normally got to England in the summer holidays but have to go in August to see family this year (and I have run out of horseradish sauce); not looking forward to the delays!
This was part of the statement.
The port said French border control booths at Dover had been "seriously understaffed overnight" during an "exceptional security situation".
It said it had raised concerns over French manning levels with the UK Government earlier this week, which had raised the issue with its French counterparts.

Granny2016 Sat 23-Jul-16 14:29:26

Hopefully they will soon be sorted .A single member of staff for coaches is quite ridiculous.
I feel very sorry for people and children stuck in this heat....not just getting to France,but also booking into accommodation in time.
Another is going to a wedding!

I agree re the horseradish sauce...you must have a supply!

whitewave Sun 24-Jul-16 09:56:51

View from Europe as they begin to think about Brexit.

Berlin
3.5% of German GDP is exported to the UK. So not really as high as some of the Brexiters would have us believe.
Merkel is keen to retain the UK within the single market, but is keen to ensure it won't be pain free as she does not want others to follow suite.

The Germans undoubtedly have their eyes on our Financial Services if the single market does not include the UK.

Madrid.
Gibraltar will be used as a bargaining tool, particularly given the almost 100% remain vote. Madrid will almost certainly go for joint sovereignty.
Spain also has strong leverage given the 320K expats. If Spain agrees that they can stay with property rights (are they under question then given Brexit? I don't know about Spanish law in that area) right to work and access to health care, Spain will want the same for the Spanish in the UK and those in future who go to work in the UK.

Warsaw
Poland is a net recipient, and if the UK leaves and withdraws its contribution, they along with other net recipients may be asked to contribute more to the EU budget. Poland will almost certainly insist that access to the single market includes continued payment to the EU.
Poland will certainly fight any attempt at UKs withdrawal from free movement

The HAgue

Has a strong anti EU movement. Will be keen to show that leaving the EU is not without pain.

Paris

Already put down a marker regarding free movement. France is not willing to see the UK cherry pick.

Rome

Keen to attract companies such as Nissan. So has a lot to gain from Brexit. It is also keen to get a slice of the financial service industry. Will relish the thought of UK losing the "pas sporting rights"

Extract from Observer.

durhamjen Sun 24-Jul-16 10:41:44

I know this might seem vindictive, but I really hope there are lots of Brexiteers in those queues.
After all, control of our borders is what they wanted.

whitewave Sun 24-Jul-16 10:46:32

I suspect the French are tipping a grin and enjoying our discomfort. I would be if I was them, although at the moment it is almost certainly about security

granjura Sun 24-Jul-16 10:55:31

I'm sure they are- and of cours it is ma mix of tighter security in France- but I am albsolutely sure there is also an element of 'héhé let's show them' ...They have got us over a barrel if they want- not just for holidays, for for all imports and exports- including frozen goods and (tragically) live animals sad - am absolutely sure they are making a point here- as they have done before x 1000.

We've done the Dover crossing more times than I could count- at peak times, like beginning of hols or to the Alps at Easter or half-term, for 45 years- and have never ever seen anything like this! Thank goodness DD1, sil and GCs are flying this time and next week-end! and we are definitely 'staycating' here all Summer.

Ceesnan Sun 24-Jul-16 11:07:07

You are right durhamjen - it does seem vindictive. Very.

granjura Sun 24-Jul-16 11:11:35

Well yes- but isn't fair to take consequences for your choices in life? You vote for it- you live with it....

I know several senior customs officers both on Swiss and French side - and I wouldn't be surprised if they do not choose to have 'a bit of fun' over next few weeks ;) say no more!

granjura Sun 24-Jul-16 11:12:39

I certainly wouldn't like to run or work for a trans-European haulage company in next few months (years...)

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