Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

We badly need a strong opposition party and there is no chance with Jeremy Corbyn as leader- he may have his fan club but he is not going to get votes in a general election. We need a leader who can work with their MPs.

I agree with you Leticia. Not a fan club of young groupies but someone who can challenge the opposition and question them intelligently. However I am so pleased to see young people engaging in politics.

Thoughtful post Day6. I totally agree with all you points.

Beammeupscottie could you list any evidence you have that the Overton window has moved to the right. I would say that the way the Conservatives present themselves- caring, social equality, working people, etc. indicates that they know what is happening. The number of people joining the Labour party adds to this. Yes the Conservatives won the last election but only because there was no party offering a real alternative. Certainly it moved to the right in the 80s and 90s but we are living in the 21st century and things have changed.

Day6, the Labour MP's knew far more than the public of Corbyns ability to be a leader . He is too weak.

He refused to take part in tv debates during the Brexit campaign. He even went on holiday .

He needed Shami with him when he appeared before the select committee, she wrote notes for him to answer questions by MP's , how could he manage at world summits when he needs help to answer questions in aestminster about the party he is suppose to be leading .

He chose his audiences during the Brexit campaign, he cannot to this in a general election . He has to fight for seats throughout the country not just safe labour seats , he cannot avoid hecklers or reporters in a general election campaign.

Now we have the Militants creeping back and talk of deselecting good MP's

You say the party should get behind him? How can they?

I worked out, and have said before that durhamjen cares more about the left wing policies than the party. The policies come first for her.

Could we stop having personal attacks on this thread? By all means debate ideas and beliefs, but don't make personal remarks.

It is the same for a lot of people. Policies come before the party. Which is up the individual of course. People can vote how they like and for whatever reason.

It means, in the labour party case, that that is the reason for the split. The policies are coming first, and that includes the way Jeremy Corbyn operates.

And will you post the same Trisher no matter who you think is subjected to,personal attacks ?

Great interview with Margaret Hodge on 'Reflections' BBC radio 4 this morning, I learned much, she was so honest , admitted her mistakes , gave her opinions on party leaders since she has been in politics . She and Blair were neighbours and she supported him, also condemned him for his money making after leaving Westminster . Was honest about her mistakes in Islington and her regrets . I didn't know she was an immigrant and had family members who were in Auschwitz . I recommend this interview to anyone interested in labour politics

The cause of this conflict was the election of a party leader so out of sympathy with Labour MPs. Again, responsibility on both sides. Labour members and supporters knew what Labour MPs thought of Corbyn when they voted for him: they naively expected MPs to change the views of their lifetimes and to offer Corbyn the loyal service which he had never offered them.

I voted for him Beam but didn't know the majority of MP's had no confidence in him, I should have paid more attention, if I had known he was involved with the trots I would most certainly would not have supported him, I thought he was a strong man but admit I based this on hearing him at miners galas, I didn't know he was such a devious man and without the ability to lead a party , I really believed he cared for the party I was so wrong

This will amuse you, Annie; from The New Yorker -

Now that he is in charge, many of Corbyn’s more centrist colleagues fear that his greatest priority—more important than winning the general election in 2020—is to restore Labour’s lost purity. “I don’t think he envisages himself walking through the door of No. 10,” a former adviser to Miliband told me. “I think he regards himself as a soldier in a longer fight. The Bolsheviks were this. It was about being there when the end comes, capitalism unravels, and the envelope opens.”

Interesting thread. I do think it is difficult to find information about this debate in the media because it is so biased against Corbyn - including the Guardian. Most of the public have the impression of a "cult" following of mainly young people, new to the Labour Party with "militant" far left tendencies. The reality on the ground is that many long standing older members of the Labour Party do support Corbyn. These supporters include elected councillors and some MPs. These supporters believe he represents a return to the Labour values on which the party was founded. They feel let down by the Blair / Brown governments.

I respect everyone's views, but I feel frustrated by this media bias which is not giving a voice to the people who do support Corbyn's policies. This means those who may actually benefit from a Corbyn government are already convinced by the media he is the "loony left" and won't vote for Labour if he is leading the party. Social change will always be opposed by established interests.

The last two elections were not lost by Corbyn and people who have similar views.
They were lost because voters could not distinguish between the left and the right.
Perhaps if more voters and MPs cared more about policies than personalities, we would have more honest politics.
There's very little difference between Corbyn and Smith on policy, apart from timing and Trident.
One reason I agree with Corbyn is on his stance on Trident.
Another is because of his stance on renationalising the railways. I also agree with him on the NHS, and cannot take seriously someone who had to ask his former boss's pertmission to stand as MP.
Maybe policies should come first for everyone with a vote.

Annie much as I might differ from you on many matters and with others I do think it should be done without any personal attack. Of course I don't always read posts as carefully as I should and there may be something I have missed but that one was so obvious.

trisher, you must skip a lot of posts .

Oh I do Annie. I do!

Labour has only ever won three elections without a break, this was when the party moved to the centre. Labours worse defeats has been when the party moved to the far left

Most of Corbyns policies are Labour Party policies .yes it's good young people are joining the party, not good the trots are getting stronger again and are infiltrating the party they were expelled from

Obviously Trisher,

Anniebach Throughout this thread it is you who has made sarcastic and denigrating remarks to anyone who dared to try and counter-balance your comments. You have called Corbyn a "hypocrite", a "militant", a "trot", a "Judas", "dangerous", a "liar" and that he "lacks balls", without referring once to a policy or saying why you disagreed with it. You have referred to those who have some regard for Corbyn as his "fan club", his "groupies", "morally bankrupt", etc., told durhamjen that you wouldn't read the "rubbish" she posted and posted aggressively to "trisher" telling her repeatedly to "get that". You have been backed up by people who have joined in the hatefest, again ignoring his policies but referring to him as "arrogant", "lazy", as being "part of the Westminster bubble" (really?!), as looking like "a used tea bag", etc. Someone even implied that members of Momentum are reminiscent of Mosley's blackshirts.

You like to present yourself as a lone, courageous voice against the Corbyn horde, when in fact the vast majority of comments on here are supportive of your stance and of you - and many of them can be seen from other political threads not to be Labour supporters - in fact one person on here said "I have never voted Labour in my life".

trisher asked that you stop the personal attacks and you replied, implying that she was being one-sided in calling for this. In fact, trisher and people who have put in a good word for Corbyn have, in the vast majority of cases, been very respectful and have not resorted to insults - it is the anti-Corbyn faction that has constantly used ridicule and nastiness, rather than concentrating on the issues. Go back over the thread and check it out.

By the way, for the first time last night I attended a Corbyn BAME rally at Highbury Fields. It was very well attended and, contrary to your remarks about "groupies", contained a fairly even gender and age balance - there were certainly many older people there. Speakers from the black, Asian and Jewish community all acknowledged Corbyn's great contribution over the years to fighting racism.

Well said Eloethan. I have tried to be respectful on this thread (as I hope I am in life) but I was gone when I was declared to be 'morally bankrupt'. There is no debating after such insult.

If policies come first, party and power come second and third?

Is there no compromise at all?

Policies then become more irrelevant surely, if the party is always in opposition?

I feel I am missing something. Is the real aim, disruption of the UK?

From the poem by Cummings;

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man.

(for politician read Corbyn)

Eleothan, I have said what I believe Corbyn to be. The politics of other posters is their business , you talk rubbish sorry, if I was concerned to keep in with those of the right would I condemn Tory policies? Would I say I want a labour government to get the Tories out? I have not said ALL corbynites are groupies, trots, his fan club etc.

I have tried and tried to discuss the threat of militants back in the party, for some very strsnge reason no Labour Party supporter is at all bothered sbout this, one can only assume Militancy is acceptable to labour supporters here, well it is not acceptable to me . As for Corbyns policies, again I have to say what a daft question, think again please , would I have voted for him if I didn't agree with them? I may speak bluntly at times but I do not pick on one poster to leap on as you do me

Corbyn is not capable of running the party, he is not capable of running a government .

He may have thousands supporting him, so does Donald Trump in his country

Your post was aggressive and uncalled for and a waste of your time, I will stick with
My own opinions not try to cuddle in with left, centre or right