Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

henbane, Corbyn voted against his party leaders over 500 times, now those who do not support him are criticised

I agree with Phoenix. I do not rate Corben at all. Could you imagine how he would fare in discussions with Putin, Trump, Merkel or Hollande? I expect this shambles in the Labour Party to go on into next year. Suits me as there are only two I rate highly, Frank Field and Gisela Stuart.

We will end health service privatisation and bring services into a secure, publicly-provided NHS. We will integrate the NHS and social care for older and disabled people, funding dignity across the board and ensure parity for mental health services.

Definitely not Tory policy.

Labour has not lurched to the left - it lurched to the right in the New Labour era and is just correcting the wabble.

Corbyn is unlikely to get elected mainly because he does not have the support of the parliamentary party, which seems to take the approach that if the party membership chooses the wrong person, the answer is to change the membership, rather than supporting the democratically elected leader. Unfortunately there is no credible alternative candidate who is likely to gain support of both the membership and the parliamentary party - can you honestly see Owen Smith as a prime minister in waiting?

Not all Corbyn supporters are young and idealistic - some of us are old and idealistic. Most Labour supporters are well to the left of Blair & Co, and many of us, remembering the Easter marches in the sixties, are anti-Trident.

'We will create a million good quality jobs across our regions and nations and guarantee a decent job for all. By investing £500 billion in infrastructure, manufacturing and new industries backed up by a publicly-owned National Investment Bank and regional banks we will build a high skilled, high tech, low carbon economy that ends austerity and leaves no one and nowhere left behind. We will invest in the high speed broadband, energy, transport and homes that our country needs and allow good businesses to thrive, and support a new generation of co-operative enterprises. '

Can't see the Tories doing this either. Perhaps you ought to look at the link properly, Monica.

www.jeremyforlabour.com/10_pledges

Well said Anniebach, I have left the Labour Party because of him.

2We will put conflict resolution and human rights at the heart of foreign policy, commit to working through the United Nations, end support for aggressive wars of intervention and back effective action to alleviate the refugee crisis. British foreign policy has long failed to be either truly independent or internationally co-operative, making the country less safe and reducing our diplomatic and moral authority. We will build human rights and social justice into trade policy, honour our international treaty obligations on nuclear disarmament and encourage others to do the same."

Can't see the Tories embracing this.

Corbyn's pledges are just mother love and apple pie and could be embraced by almost any party. What is wanted is detailed policies and detailed costings, and not just peace on earth and soak the rich rubbish.

Corbyn is not introducing a new way of doing politics he is just doing the same old same old, but badly dressed and without charisma.

Real change in politics will not come until we have a proportional voting system of some kind that encourages more people to think that voting is worthwhile. It will probably lead to splits in both our main parties as their right and left wings go their separate ways and will bring more diversity to parliament and coalition government. In other words we will become more European in our ways

Trisher,i have said smith cannot win a general election, even pea brains know this , labour will not win the next election. The party has entered the wilderness years again.

I will refer to the independent! Enquiry if I wish, it had been accepted untill a reward was given It was wrong to have a party member hold the enquiry but to then give a seat in the lords was so wrong

I fear you could be right about Sunderland, petra.

@trisher

OS didn't advocate privatisation of the NHS. The Blair government used private providers on a relatively small scale to plug gaps in NHS provision. My father was one who benefited from having cataract surgery in a private eye hospital, because the local general hospital was told to clear its backlog. OS has admitted this kind of thing was a 'mistake' because it allowed the Conservatives to use the legislation and open the floodgates.

If OS was paid £90,000 at Pfizer, he presumably took a pay cut to become an MP. Sorry, but it's that kind of thing which really annoys me about Labour supporters.

I happen to tutor a child of one of the few remaining Pfizer senior executives in the UK. I don't know how much he earns, but I would imagine it's over £100,000. Both he and his wife are solid Labour supporters. Is Labour going to disown them, because they're wealthy and work for a pharma company (shock horror) and don't have a background holier than Mother Theresa?

The last labour leader was Milliband, before him Brown, before him Blair, before him Kinnock

You can say, promise anything you like in opposition. Did anyone see the brexit programme last night? I think ukip will take Sunderland at the next election, those people are very angry with the whole of Westminster. And if anyone thinks that JC isn't part of that whole Westminster bubble you are delusional. He has the same opinion of working class people that Cameron/ Osborne have.

Wasn't Tony Blair a "man of principles" though - but to be fair he wasn't leader of the Labour Party either - he invented the "New Labour" organisation.

The last Labour leader was surely Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan, or maybe even Neil Kinnock.

Could you move on from the anti-semitism question Annie please? I think we know your views although not many people agree with them. Your allegation that Shami Chakarabati has in some way been bought is unworthy of you and a slur on someone who has consistently worked hard to promote human rights everywhere. You don't like Corbyn we know, do you like Owen Smith and do you think he can win an election?

I agree with everything you say about this NHS "plan" durhamjen - owen Smith simply cannot be trusted - seems very much like an opportunist to me.

But having read through most of the document I came to the conclusion that it was just another example of waffle, and doublespeak. Take this as an example:

^We will support providers to improve and sustain their performance against waiting time standards, including by working with them on their 2016/17 operational plans.^

What utter rubbish - of course this is what a management team should and must be expected to do.

To be honest, this "NHS document" is no better and no worse than a GCSE english essay - but it's littered with the 1980s style team mantra, cliches and drivel.

Other than that it's OK

I am against police carrying out investigations into allegations against police. If the Tory party held an independent enquiry and appointed a Tory member to carry it out I would not trust the result, I am not going to support Corbyn for his independent enquiry into anti semitism carried out by a party member and then to insult the Jewish community by giving a seat in the lords to his independent investigator who found him innocent

Jen, I have said they are Labour Party policies, as a member of the Labour Party I support them.

I cannot support a leader who is willing to destroy the party . Do you believe the four previous labour leaders who fought elections don't know what thry are talking about when it comes to being party leader ?

If you do not disagree with his ten pledges, then he must still be a man of principle.

And while everyone is being distracted by an anti-Corbyn feeling again, the Tories are loving it.
They are dismantling the NHS, as Owen Smith wanted to do.

improvement.nhs.uk/uploads/documents/Final_Bus_Plan_16-17_13july.pdf

Is there anything you disagree with in Corbyn's ten pledges, Annie?
I notice even on this thread, there are many people who say they have never and never would vote Labour?
They will be enjoying this disarray, too.
What happened to solidarity?

Corbyns policies are Labour Party policies, as he will never be in s position to see them through not worth discussing how he will acomplish carrying them through

No one is blaming Corbyn fir labour losing the last two elections, the first it was the Tory press and their constant attacks on Brown, the second was Milliband moving a fraction to the left.

With the loss of labour seats in Scotland and the loss of labour seats come the boundary changes moving to the far left is going to encourage middle England to vote labour? Plus when the Corbyn supporters in the North and Wales realise Corbyn supports immigration then they will turn to UKIP

Corbyn has said he will not challenge the Brexit referendum result, considering he has wanted out all his political career he wouldn't would he?

Because their policies were indistinguishable from the Tories dj who have very convincingly presented themselves as for equal opportunity. Only a proper left wing opposition has any hope of succeeding. But Blair did a good job when he moved the party to the right (and fair enough was successful) so some think this will work again. They don't appear to take other parties into account.

What about looking at Corbyn's policies rather than simply echoing banal oppositionist mainstream media commentary about 'cults' or how he is 'unelectable'. Which of Corbyn's policy pledges do you not agree with? (follow the link below for more detail of each). Under Corbyn's leadership Labour have reversed their former policies of privatisation-lite for the NHS, have insisted that austerity is a political choice and that (just as the UK government did post-WW2) we can invest in the social infrastructure and can afford decent housing and healthcare for all. Whose interests are served by denigrating Corbyn?

www.jeremyforlabour.com/10_pledges

An economy that works for all
Secure homes for all
A free National Education Service
Action to secure our environment
Security at work
Cut income and wealth inequality
Act to find prejudice and injustice
Secure our NHS and social care
Democracy in our economy
Peace and justice abroad

I do wonder - going back- if David Miliband had won the leadership contest instead of Ed, might this whole scenario never have arisen?