Black Faced Morris Dancers Banned at ShrewsburyFolk Festival

That's twice today you've talked about 'my country' granjura, whereas you are usually at pains to make it clear that you consider the UK to be just as much your home.

I don't believe there has been a 'massive rise' in racial attacks since the referendum, and surely the way forward is to encourage integration, not highlight differences and encourage victimisation?

Granjura

Do you think ' Schmutzli ' should be banned in Switzerland?

Are blackened faces in a countries national traditions to be automatically deemed as being racially offensive to some one or another?

www.swissinfo.ch/eng/schmutzli--the-swiss-santa-s-sinister-sidekick/7082046

(Schmutzli is a character known throughout Switzerland at Christmas time.)

What about the Dutch tradition of Black Pete?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/11996588/Dutch-Black-Pete-makes-annual-arrival-to-howls-of-protest.html

Yes, there are 2 countries I consider 'my' countries. I happen to live here at the moment, hence the use of 'my' for Switzerland. Hope that is ok with you. 39 years in UK, 26 in Switzerland.

How does painting faces black help immigrants with integration and encouraging victimisation? I truly don't get it.

No Schmutzli or Balck Pete around here at Christmas time.

And the make-up of SWitzerland is very different to that of UK- Schmutz means 'dust/dirt' and the character is based on a chimney sweep.

But I do agree, I often feel as though I live on a different planet. Make of that what you wish.

The blacked up N****r Minstrels were treating negroes like the freaks in travelling shows. Black faced morris dancers are quite different and go much further back. Back to a time when the vast majority of people would never have seen a negro and probably wouldn't even know they existed.

But I do agree, I often feel as though I live on a different planet. Make of that what you wish.

The original Morris Men would also have used soot to blacken their faces.

Perhaps I should have said 'Surely the way forward is to encourage integration, not to highlight differences?' and left it at that.

I've made my point anyway, as I think you have too, granjura.

Come to think about Commandoes and Sas etc black up for night time exercises. They should be banned.

Ana

I think you have a point re 'educating' the public and the tradition of the Morris Dance.

themorrisring.org/publications/morris-tradition

It is probable the term morris developed from the French word morisque (meaning a dance, the dance), which became morisch in Flemish, and then the English moryssh, moris and finally morris.

Molly Dances, East Anglia.

' costumes worn by Molly dancers are very individualistic, but largely based upon working outdoor clothes and hobnailed boots. Dancers may have their faces blackened or otherwise disguised as in the photograph below. Disguising the face in this way is well-known in English social history: men wishing to pursue proscribed activities would black their faces to avoid recognition: such activities could include both smuggling and morris dancing! '

Welsh Border Morris.

Often the costume will include a Rag Coat, (a coat which has tatters, small pieces of cloth, sewn on it), or sometimes a formal tail coat. Like Molly dancers, they will disguise their faces; some modern sides will go further and wear masks.

Granjura

Sorry I find little difference between the so called issues that Morris Dancing/Schmutzli/Black Pete pose. It is either bad taste/racist in overtone to 'black up' or not. To my mind it is not bad taste nor racist when it is understood the meaning behind the reason in tradition.

This reminds of a storm in a teacup about a pub (possibly in Isleworth, a London suburb) called The Black Boy. This was the nickname of King Charles II and his portrait adorned the pub sign. Some know-all or, perhaps more correctly, know-nothing decided it was racist and wanted it banned.

If black-faced Morris dancers are racist, then what about Othello, the play, or Otello the opera? So-called feminists have ranted about The Taming of the Shrew and cross words have been spoken about Oliver Twist. If none of these is ever performed again would it make the world a fairer, kinder, less prejudiced place?

Othello is about the racism of the era as Merchant of Venice highlights attitudes to the Jewish community of that time. Taming of the Shrew can be interpreted as female oppression or female strength. Saw an amazing production of ToS in Stratford where it really did highlight the dreadful subservience that was expected of many women.

If the origin of blacking ones face re Morris Dancers /mummers etc was to avoid detection by employer etc then no problem! But if, like the B&W minstrels et al, it is harking back to the worst days of the American south treatment/expectations of the black community or it is ridiculing or mocking a race of people because they were/are considered less important/ valued than the 'host' community then it is wrong.

I can see that these traditions are often an important part of social history in that they provide some insight into what life was like for the average working person.

I just wondered how a black person arriving in Shrewsbury - I believe not a multi-ethnic area - would feel if they came upon these black-faced Morris dancers, if (as is likely) they were unaware of the origins of this tradition. I think I read in the paper that some people were asking whether it was necessary for the faces to be black - what about another colour - blue for instance - it would serve the same purpose of concealing identity? Traditions do tend to change over time anyway.

There are quite a variety of opinions regarding plays like Othello and the Merchant of Venice and what message Shakespeare was intending to convey. Hugh Quarshie, for instance, has strong views as to the casting of Othello but these views are not necessarily shared by all black actors. I think Jewish people too have varying opinions about the role of Shylock in The Merchant of Venice.

I think it is important for people of whatever ethnicity to feel able to express their feelings about these sorts of issues and to feel comfortable enough to to enter into discussion, rather than for discussion to be shut down and hasty bans put in place.

If a person, whatever colour their skin, is unsure of the meaning of the blacked Morris dancer faces, he or she can ask what the significance is. The onus is on the ignorant to find out, not to immediately assume that something detrimental is the case. The very least someone should do is find out a little bit about Morris dancing and, with the interenet or a library, look stuff up about Morris dancing traditions.

The person could even approach a Morris dancer and ask! (in a non-aggressive manner, of course). It seems the original, ignorant complainer did not do any of this.

It does not behove each and every one of us to pussyfoot around eliminating activities from our lives that might, because of public ignorance, cause someone, somewhere to take offence unnecessarily.

THANKS for the video Tegan.

I'm a big fan of Morris Dancing of any variety. If people object to the dancers blackening their faces they could wear black masks just to keep objectors quiet.

Morris Dancing is one of our traditional folk dances and its origins are lost in the mists of time. I particularly like the Hobby Horse and the strange horse in The Floral Dance.

Morris Dancing is also a display of male virility.

I have also seen female Morris Dancers and they are excellent.

Are black people in Africa and the Carrabean being racist when they 'white up' and dance?

I think that making changes to something that isn't racist in order to keep happy people who assume it's racist is racist. It predicates on the assumption that non-whites will be offended or that whites will be offended on behalf of non-whites, which assumption itself depends on the idea that non-whites are less reasonable and less able to learn about stuff than, say, I am. In short it's an attitude of superiority by white people.

The only proper response to ignorance is to inform people that their assumption is mistaken and to explain why.

Ha! well said, nfk!

Some people claim that it's not possible to be racist if you are not white.

Which point of view is tosh.

Good post that bags.

I made a similar point up thread, nfk and was slapped down in the most condescending manner. I hope you are not similarly treated! thatbags, good post.

I can't think of anything less exciting than Morris dancing, but each to their own. However, culture is not a fixed concept, it is ever changing through the generations, so if aspects of Morris or any other type of dancing change over time, as I'm sure they have, then that's a natural evolutionary process.

My understanding of racism is "prejudice plus power". If somebody didn't like me just because I was white, I would be annoyed and upset, but it wouldn't materially affect my life. However, non-white people in a predominantly white society can be subject not only to prejudice because of the colour of their skin but also discriminatory practices in terms of, for instance, access to education, health, jobs, the justice system, etc.

Agree with suzy about traditions not being fixed forever- and need to adapt at times.

Agree with Pogs too, no difference between the black faces of Morris Dancers and Black Pete/Schmutzli - but there is a huge difference in the audience. But agreed.

As Suzy says, why not adapt slightly but changing the face colour to another- be it green or blue (I know some will say no because of the irish/scottish connotations) - or do the same dances without colouring faces. Would it really change much.

But yes, I also agree with thatbags- and can see it from both sides. Agree with Tegan too that it is an overeaction- but why not change face colour and be done with it? Would it really make much difference.

Greyduster oh FFS!

granjura

I think we all know what racism is. Most of us should know what it isn't too.

Even supposing that Morris dancers' face-blacking is an acknowledgement (a cultural appreciation) of the origin of this type of dancing (if it was Moorish, i.e. north African), it is not racist. If it originated as disguise it isn't racist either.

In a similar way, it is not 'racist' for Japanese people to don kilts and dancing ghillies to do Scottish country dancing. They are, like the Morris dancers, appreciating and keeping alive a dance tradition that arose in a different culture from their own. That is all.