Brexit 3

I am interested because, if we moved to Australia, we would not get either an increase on our State pensions not any healthcare and the cost of private health insurance would be prohibitive.
The grass is not always greener.

Re the exchange rate, it is swings and roundabouts of course, some gain some lose.

or not nor

And of course not all ex pats in other parts of Europe would return to the UK, especially if they don't have property here.

A lot would do as Mamie says she may do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, granjura. I thought she had not been in Switzerland that long, has worked in the UK and paid NI for most of her life. If that's the case, she (and many other ex-pats) have paid as much (or more) into the system as people who have never left the UK's shores.

Correct dd- I moved to UK aged 19 and stayed 40 years- and took British nationality in 1973 ... did my Degree in UK, taught in UK state schools, and certainly paid my dues. OH is British and worked dedicated to the NHS for for 38 years - working 140 hrs in first couple of years, and around 80 at the end of his career. I think he paid plenty in more ways than one ;)

I therefore do not consider myself as an 'expat' neither here, nor in UK. But I have never paid into the Swiss system as I moved to UK when I had finished my Bac (sort of equivalent to A'Levels but very different) and a trilingual PA course. I was just a kid really. Been back here for 7 years- no income or pension at all from Switzerland, only our UK savings and pensions (which as said have lost 55% in the 7 years).

Yes, I am sure granjura has, not arguing with that, as have DH and I; however I still think that, as we are be a group who may use the NHS more, we (pensioners) should pay a reduced amount of NI on a means-tested basis. Not just returned ex-pats, anyone who is in receipt of a certain level of income in retirements and uses the NHS.

Why should those who may be in receipt of a good income in retirement expect younger people who may be struggling with mortgages, childcare etc to fund their healthcare?
Of course, one thing the GP always asks these days if an older person needs any procedure is: 'Do you have private healthcare?'. At least ours do.

X posts

Just rather as you were talking about ex-pats moving back to the UK (presumably retired people) and included yourself in that group gj - I expect most ex-pats would have paid NI all their lives too if they retired overseas; if they are still working they will be expats working in Switzerland at vast salaries laughing all the way to their Swiss bank accounts - or wherever they live, whatever bank they use in their country of residence.

Many of us still obliged to pay UK tax on our pensions, as well as tax in our country of residence Jalima. I pay UK tax on my occupational pension. And yes, obviously thirty plus years of NI contributions as I worked full-time from when my children were tiny. We have built in the cost of top-up health insurance and fluctuations in the exchange rates to our budget, but an extended period of a cut in income from the low exchange rate would be difficult.

@Jalima

Do you want to borrow my hard hat? I agree with you about pensioners paying some form of NI, but have usually been attacked for saying so.

I have said so before, then retreated under fire!

Jalima the £500-600 figure only refers to Switzerland.
The confusion arises because the NHS is free at the point of use whereas other countries require payment which is then recovered from various health insurances.

We have UK pensions and they are deemed to be Govt pensions - teacher and local govt - this means we pay tax at source in the UK at exactly the same rate we did when we lived there - we also pay tax on any bank etc interest. In France theUK pay 70% of our health costs - after paying 100% in UK of course! We are then assessed for tax in France and as it is a different system we pay again here. This is what Mamie is referring to. As it happens we chose to have our pensions paid into our UK bank accounts and only move money into France as needed. This has meant that so far the exchange rates have had a very limited effect on us as we use a UK credit card which does not charge for foreign currency use and we get a daily conversion rate. The UK has a set agreed amount it pays to France for our health care and it is reciprocated. The top up health assurance is about the same as Mamie pays.

So in fact Jalima we are paying into the UK coffers at the same rate and getting a limited amount back. Do you still think we will have no right to care if we are forced to return to live in the UK? Younger working people (living and working in France) who are in the French system will have accrued rights to healthcare through the Social charges they pay all the time and at a high rate.

We are in the opposite situation to most of the posters on here, as we worked for about 20 years in Switzerland and then retired back to the UK. We both receive the Swiss state pension for the number of years that we worked and DH also has a company pension. We pay no Swiss tax, all our income is assessed here and we pay UK tax on it. We decided to use an accountant to sort it out, because when we moved the situation was different, and we paid some tax in Switzerland which was then adjusted for in the UK.

With medical insurance, as said above everybody has to have medical insurance in Switzerland, and when we moved there it was relatively cheap and we insured ourselves and our sons to have private treatment paying a fairly small excess charge. By the time we left, the cost had risen so much that we, in company with most of the people we knew, had changed this to a general insurance with an excess of 1500SFr per year. The cost of insurance had almost quadrupled in that time.

Do you still think we will have no right to care if we are forced to return to live in the UK?
If you can find that I said that I will be surprised and will apologise, but I do not think that that is what I said. Putting words into my mouth.
As I said to granjura ex-pats will have paid NI all their lives, and as you say ww some are still paying tax.

What I said was that I think UK pensioners should contribute to the NHS on a means-tested basis.

If someone is prepared to pay £500+ per month for healthcare as an ex-pat why not pay into some top-up scheme or put that money on one side if relocating to the UK (where there will be no problem with any exchange rate!) and it would be there for any procedures that may be required and for which there could be a waiting list in the UK?
That's what we do.

We know quite a number of people who have been quite derogatory about the UK, couldn't understand people who stayed here (us!, DB, DSIL) when we could all be having a lovely life in Spain or France, but at least some of them have had property problems, pension problems, health problems and would like to come back to good old Blighty which is apparently not so bad after all.
However, whether or not they could now afford a property back here is not clear.

The point is, Jalima, that some of them will almost certainly decide to return to the UK. Nobody knows how many. I know people who have moved abroad to retire, but retained property in the UK. Up to now, rental income from the UK has supported their lifestyles abroad, but the exchange rate has affected their income from rentals and pensions.

If they do return to the UK, they won't be obliged to pay for their healthcare and they will place an extra burden on the NHS if there are 100s of 1000s of them. Depending what deals are worked out, the UK will be swapping them for young and fit EU nationals, who contribute to UK GDP.

Pensioners in the UK pay tax on a means-tested basis the same as anyone at work.
Rather than have a whole new system to tax us more for the NHS through NI, why not just raise the tax rate for everyone?
Better still, why not just claim tax from those who are defrauding the system?

Why mix everything up here. Pensioners paying extra contributions for health care if they can afford it has nothing at all to do with the discussion in hand here. Perhap starts another thread to discuss this.

We are talking about those living abroad who benefit from reciprocal agreements with the EU (and Switzerland) and who may have to return if a/ the £ drops further and b/ have to pay massively more for health care than what they've planned for under current circumstances.

I agree with you, gj. The most important factor, as far as I can make out, is the exchange rate. With sterling dropping and the Euro not doing well, people are rushing to put money into Swiss francs. I understand the Swiss government is anxious, because the currency is in danger of being over-valued, thus making Swiss exports expensive and deterring tourists.

PS. That wouldn't work, dj. NI is now approximately half the basic rate of tax, so pensioners would still escape paying a third. Not only that, but many pensioners have a low income, despite having wealth, so pay proportionately less income tax.

I don't think pensioners should pay the full NI, just a proportion towards the NHS, say 6%. It could be collected along with any tax when income is over a certain level - not the lowest rate taxpayers certainly, but some pensioners are on a very reasonable income - apparently.

It is a huge burden for our younger workers.

Talking about the NHS, May's latest is to allow foreign doctors to stay for the interim, until enough British ones have been trained.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/04/jeremy-hunt-accused-devaluing-contribution-foreign-doctors-to-uk

Is that the same for nurses, teachers, builders, etc?
So much for saying that anyone already working here from abroad would be welcome to stay, the impression she gave in her first speech.

Liam Fox as well. So caring.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/04/liam-fox-refuses-to-guarantee-right-of-eu-citizens-to-remain-in-uk