Brexit 3

No, I don't think the NHS care about my feelings either, they were only worried that I might complain ( which I damn well should have done) about their potentially dangerous cock ups. Perhaps your EU medicos spoke and understood perfect English dd but I think that my experience is probably the tip of the iceberg.

All this talk of EU medical staff leaving ( or being thrown out) is ridiculous, the vast majority will want to stay, they have good jobs, but the media tries to big up any perceived slights/problems as it makes good tv or headlines.Don't fall for it.

Don't fall for it, that should have read.

We will always need a vast amount of immigration for the NHS and we have done for a long time anyway.For the future it could be a mix of EU ,African countries and Asian countries.

This Idea that the referendum unleashed a wave of racist abuse in the UK is ridiculous. You only have to look at France and Spain as examples to know that racism was on the increase anyway.

The latest advice on Utube showing how to support Muslim women being verbally attacked was developed by a French person following on from incidences he witnessed on the French metro.

The reported increase (I say this because I have never witnessed this myself) comes from those who are anti-Islam because of recent events. Those who already hold racist views and think all followers of Islam are the same.

What do Muslims have to do with the EU? The majority of them in the UK aren't Muslims. There has been a significant rise in incidents of abuse against Eastern Europeans.

@rosesared

You have no more idea than I do whether EU citizens will be allowed to stay, whether or not they have good jobs. Until there is some kind of reciprocal agreement, nobody knows, so 'all this talk' isn't ridiculous.

The Sun, having campaigned for brexit, are now complaining that there might be a charge to visit EU countries#youcouldn'tmakeitupcouldyou

We wanted our borders back to keep them out. Do Sun journalists not realise that borders have two sides? Obviously that's too intelligent for Sun readers.

I loved the number of EU flags on Last night of the Proms.
Maybe next year the number of union flags will be outnumbered by those of other countries.

@Tegan

I think there should be a charge. Extra border and passport control staff will have to be employed. Who is going to pay for them?

I agree, daphne.
Sun readers will not, though.

It should not be the tax payers who pay for the border guards. After all, not all tax payers use the borders.

Goodness durhamjen how many Sun readers do you know that entitles you to be so disparaging about them? What a sad state of affairs; people are attacked for being another race, for voting for BREXIT and for reading the Sun

If there are going to be charges for visas to visit European countries then no doubt visitors from those countries will have to pay for a visa to visit this one, which will certainly go toward to cost of policing borders.

"It should not be the tax payers who pay for border guards. After all, not all tax payers use the borders". That maybe so but everyone, regardless of whether or not they pay any tax at all, benefits from border controls that can prevent the admittance of terrorists. There are plenty of non tax payers who benefit from our NHS too come to think of it.

Which non taxpayers benefit from using the NHS? Almost every single person in the UK pays taxes of some sort. Even the most disabled, incapable of spending money, have money spent on them on items which incur VAT. That's not a valid argument.

Yes, people from other countries might have to pay for visas, which will contribute to the extra costs for their own countries.

Believe it or not, Smileless, UK border guards already keep an eye open for suspected terrorists.

I'm referring to those that live on benefits, who make no contribution to what they receive even though they're more than capable of doing so. Why do you feel it necessary to respond with something as emotive as "even the most disabled, incapable of spending money" daphnedill. I do not require you to decide whether or not in your opinion, I have made a valid argument; my argument is as valid as anyone else.

Gosh reallyare "UK border guards already keeping an eye open for suspected terrorists", what you honestly thought I didn't know that!! Of course they are, to the benefit of everyone regardless of whether or not they use borders, which was the point I was making.

LOL! I didn't decide whether you made a valid argument. You didn't! People living 'on benefits' have, more often then not, contributed via income tax and NICs at some point. In any case, income tax accounts for only about 25% of the Treasury's income and NICs for another 20% (approx). The rest comes from indirect taxation, which everybody pays in one form or another.

No, it wasn't the point you were making. The country (via taxpayers) does pay for border security for everybody's benefit, but if visas are introduced, there will be a considerable cost for administration and enforcement. Only the people travelling abroad will benefit, so they should pay.

Has to be spelled out to some people, daphne.
I do not want to contribute to the cost of visas for people going abroad. Obviously the Sun thinks its readers will onject, too, otherwise Tegan wouldn't have been able to read about it #thesunmadeitupdidn'tit

Talking about people on benefits, in today's paper there is mention of the US firm Concentrix which is wrongly cutting payments to low-income families. Frank Field is worried enough to ask the Work and Pensions Committee to look into it. 38 MPs have signed a commons motion accusing the firm of a "brutal and disrespectful approach".
I am sure the mother who had her home taken away from her in Dundee will be pleased to hear she ought to help pay for border controls.
Frank Field calls the company a recruiting sergeant for food banks.
I bet they pay VAT when they can afford to buy anything.

Oooh! I've had dealings with Concentrix. It's an American company and has been tasked with chasing overpaid tax credits. Anybody who has ever had any dealings with HMRC about tax credits knows that the system is barmy.

A few years ago, I was overpaid by about £3000. I knew I was receiving too much money, so contacted HMRC and tried to get the payments stopped, but was told to wait until the end of the tax year. I waited and eventually my tax credits were stopped and asked to repay the overpayment, which I did.

After about another six months, I received a letter from Concentrix, asking for another £2500. I wrote back and said that I didn't have £2500 (which was true) and asked how they had worked it out. I received back a letter that I could pay in instalments, but still no explanation. I wrote back saying I was happy to pay, but I didn't know why I owed the money. I then received a letter with a date for a court hearing. I rang Concentrix and got an American style sales brush-off, so I contacted HMRC direct and explained the situation. They told me I didn't owe any money, but I still had to attend the court hearing.

The next thing I knew I received a demand for court expenses and yet another demand from Concentrix, so I contacted HMRC directly - yet again. The woman on the end of the phone couldn't have been more apologetic and said it was happening to a lot of people. Eventually (after about 18 months) the whole matter was dropped.

So we can't generalise about Sun readers but can generalise about people who claim benefits?

Oh come on, it is well known there are third and fourth generations of families in this country who have never worked, who know how to play the system and receive more in benefits than some people who are earning a living.

The arrogancesimply because someone isn't making the same argument as you or agreeing with yours daphnedil, doesn't negate theirs.

That's the country we live in isn't it. I've always contributed my 45% in taxation and never received benefits so, if additional expenses are incurred policing borders due to entrance visas, those who don't travel abroad will like me and oh so many others, be contributing to the cost of something they don't use.

You said something similar to me on the previous Brexit thread Durhamjen and I told you at the time that I don't need anything spelling out to me. I made a specific mention of the benefit receivers I was referring too; "that's too intelligent for Sun readers" now that is a generalisation. Why on earth do you feel the need to question someones intellectual ability simply because they don't agree with you.

If EU citizens have to pay for visas then that money will cover the cost of the Visas. There won't be any profit made but no loss either.
Policing borders does not make the population of a country happy. Think of East Germany what a mess that was.

Maybe the British citizens , living in the EU will be the next to be abused when they come to visit. I will not be coming. The thought of living in Yorkshire and hearing the Brexiteer neighbours is enough to keep me here.
The last time I went the neighbour was on at me how nice Croatia was and how they didn't want to be part of the Eu inspite of the millions paid in to get their country up to scratch. I felt overwhelmed by her nastyiness and how she looked at me as if say Traitor!!

To annoy them, Smileless. It works, too.
I can't for the life of me remember who said what on the previous Brexit threads. Anyway, if something was worth saying there, it's worth repeating.

I moved here from York, Margaret, where the majority voted to remain, probably because they all know lots of EU citizens.
Which bit of Yorkshire are you talking about?

No durhamjen some things aren't worth saying the first time and certainly aren't worthy of repeating. Personally, I prefer to have a healthy debate, where peoples' differing opinions are respected even if not agreed with. Seeking to annoy people seems rather futile and infantile to me.

I live 20 miles from York, don't know many EU citizens, not that that has anything to do with our sovereignty, our right to make our own decisions, to police our borders the way we see fit and not be dictated to by the EU.

Policing borders may not make people in a particular country any happier, but will make many feel a lot safer. We can only ponder if the recent terrorist atrocities in France wouldn't have happened if not for the Shengan agreement.

20 miles from York is not York.
Lots of EU citizens in York. I bet there are lots working in the hospital, too. In fact I know there are. German surgeon for one operating on hips and knees. Neurosurgeon for another from Scandinavia. Polish nurses living round the corner from me.
Mu Danish daughter in law worked in the shops there, and in the university library. If you had a problem with your BT phone if you had one, the chances are you could have spoken to her, but would not have known she was not English by her accent.

Perhaps your ideas might change if you saw them as useful human beings.
We were/are not dictated to by the EU. We are part of the EU and make joint decisions. Not any more though, more's the pity.
We are going to be dictated to on how we leave. If we do not agree to what the rest of the EU says, we will be left with nothing but your idea of sovereignty.
You're welcome to that.