Brexit 3

A 20 mile radius of York covers a huge variety of different towns and villages. For a start, York voted Remain. If you don't like annoying people, maybe you should reconsider some of your posts. I've been reading up about a phenomenon called 'post truth politics over the last few weeks. I'll post you some links, if you like.

I'm talking about people I knew from visiting relations in Yorksire I'm sure York and Harrogate people are different.

smile
Borders only make people feel safe if they have been told they need to be made safe. The East Germans were made safe from the Western World. They were never in danger from them. They didn't need to be made safe.
They were so happy being made safe by controlled borders that they risked their lives trying to get away.

An island as large as GB cannot have controlled borders. anyone with a boat can have access. Maybe it could be done but controlling those hundreds of miles would cost more than the Uk has to spend at the moment.

'This Idea that the referendum unleashed a wave of racist abuse in the UK is ridiculous. You only have to look at France and Spain as examples to know that racism was on the increase anyway'
...therefore we need to question why this is happening and do something about it, not have an attitude of 'well, it's happening everywhere so it isn't a bit deal, is it'. Especially with people like Farage, le Pen [sp] and Trump looming large in world politics. Why do I keep thinking of the way the Jews were treated prior to WWI and the 'head in the sand' attitude everyone took then, both in Germany and everywhere else ?

@Margaret

My understanding is that the EU wants to make the British get visas, although I expect the British might then reciprocate. The idea is to control the British entering the EU rather than stopping EU citizens entering the UK. Maybe the EU is concerned about British terrorists!

You really love putting words into people's mouths don't you Tegan ?
Who the fuck said 'well it's happening everywhere so it isn't a big deal, is it?'

Only you

Smiless2012. 17.24 to Durhamjen

"Why on earth do you feel the need to question someone's intellectual ability simply because they don't agree with you".

Durhamjen 17.47. to Smileless post of 17.24

"To annoy them, Smileless. It works, too.
I can't for the life of me remember who said what on the previous Brexit threads. Anyway, if something was worth saying there, it's worth repeating."

Am I correct in believing your post of 17.47 is in response to Smileless post of 17.24 or is it a response to another post?. The reason for enquiring is I suspect you wrote that in all honesty and if so then I think quite a few posters would find your honesty enlightening.

But POGS you really think we need enlightening?

Daphnedil. 00.01. to Smileless

" If you don't like annoying people, maybe you should reconsider some of your posts. I've been reading up about a phenomenon called 'post truth politics over the last few weeks. I'll post you some links, if you like."

We are surely ALL interested in your reading literature and this is the meaning of 'Post Truth Politics'.

'''Post-truth politics is a political culture in which debate is framed largely by appeals to emotion disconnected from the details of policy and by the repeated assertion of talking points, to which factual rebuttals are ignored.'''

Hmmm. I have been reading up on proverbs and one has stuck in my mind. 'Physician heal thyself'.

I have read all through this thread, and I am still in the dark about what Brexit voters actually voted for. It seems to me they mostly objected to the way the country was being run, but had no chance to get rid of the Government that was the actual perpetrator of the austerity and divisive conditions. So they voted for a change, any change, without enough knowledge to know what this would actually mean in practice.

Margaret X

Having read your posts what is your thought over 'Borders' and 'Racial tension' in other EU countries, obviously Germany is coming to mind.

I own up to finding posts that portray all things in the EU as hunky dory but the UK is one of a kind, especially post Brexit an enigma. The continual harping that the UK is now a s--t country to live in and all is well in the other 27 EU countries is not an honest appraisal, disingenuous.

Indeed in your own words you say " Maybe the British citizens , living in the EU will be the next to be abused when they come to visit. I will not be coming. " (to the UK/Yorkshire)

Why do I use the word disingenuous ? Because those posters that are determined to undermine the UK in such a manner inevitably fail to respond to posts that mention the fact other EU countries are suffering from a rise in racial tension and have indeed 'closed their borders'. The Schengen Agreement has almost collapsed , borders have been shut and passport control reinstated in many of the 27 countries left. Racial tension is growing and indeed Germany is having it's fair share of trouble. I go so far as to say Germany is experiencing more problems than the UK.

Macedonia, Croatia, Slovenia, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Norway, France, Hungary, Belgium. Plenty of information out there re Border Controls/Closed Borders and the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13194723. (Schengen controversy)

www.politico.eu/article/belgium-suspends-schengen-polices-border-france-calais-migrants-camps-jambon/

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/25/refugee-crisis-schengen-area-scheme-brink-amsterdam-talks

I had a lovely day in Leeds yesterday. Shared the water taxi to the Royal Armouries with a lively group of Venetians on a school trip, stood with a group of Japanese tourists tickled pink by the fact that DGS2 aged 3 was so engrossed in a lengthy video about how to make a Samurai sword, chatted to a French mum and daughter while we waited for the bus. People of all nationalities, creeds and colours milling round the streets in the sunshine, getting on together. Not to mention the many people I've worked with from the EU and further afield, most of whom now see Yorkshire as their home.

The Yorkshire you talk about isn't one I recognise, MargaretX. Leeds voted Remain, incidentally. Is this another city you'd exclude from your sweeping statements about Yorkshire?

POGS,

I feel that the fact that other EU countries are suffering from racial tension because of Schengen is also rather disingenuous. We were never part of the Schengen agreement and have always controlled our own borders as far as non EU immigrants are concerned. So no reason to Brexit because of that.

On the other hand, I think that people are conflicted over the free movement of EU nationals, most of whom are here in jobs and contributing to the British economy. Do Brexiters want them out or not?

I found this from the Guardian yesterday to be very sad: tinyurl.com/z5ggt3k
I know that it's a purposely selected sample but no-one should be feeeling like this

@Maggie

I gather you weren't a witness to the attack on a Polish man in Leeds

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-37337290

Yes, she should, POGS.

I did vote Remain but I think that Lozamas's post of 7/9/16 is interesting and in part how I feel now.

Many of my friends voted to leave and I think that welshwife's post of 7/9/16. 09.08 may well be an indication of one of the reasons they voted exit - the overbearing bureaucracy of the autocrats who run the EU under the pretence that it is a democracy.

Tegan isn't the only one who likes putting words into peoples mouths Anya. When durhamjen did I ever say or even imply that I don't regard EU citizens as "as useful human beings".

I'm sure some do find my posts annoying if they don't agree with them daphnedil but I don't question the intellect of other posters just to annoy them.

Tegan
I 'lost' as did quite a few members of my family.
I am 'getting over it' as are they.

I think had the Remain camp won, some of them would be saying exactly the same to people who voted to leave.

So why do you insult people?

Who have I insulted?

I think that the attacks on Polish people are despicable but I don't think these street attacks are anything new.
Gangs of young men (and occasionally women) have always roamed the streets and attacked someone they perceive to be 'different'.
Saturday nights in our town used to see running battles if 'a gang' came over from a nearby town or boys from the Forces camp were out for the night.
In fact, I think it is a lot better than it was years ago but there are always incidents that hit the headlines, sadly.

Re the vote - wasn't it you dyrhamjen who posted pre-referendum that you had read that the way you vote would tend to be down to your attitude to risk - if you tend to be cautious vote Remain, if a risk-taker then vote to leave.

Sorry durhamjen I relocated you to near Bath!

So we shouldn't question why racist abuse is happening in this country? And I shouldn't be allowed to question why brexit happened, the effects it's had on this country and the people in it or, indeed question what it actually 'is', because I'm a 'loser'?

Hilarious Tegan

Now you're putting words into your own mouth

And I shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion without having my words distorted and new ones put in my mouth?

IF Remainers had won, no doubt any Brexiters would be getting very short shrift on here if they had a little moan or queried the result.