Jeremy and the future

That rings a bell...

I had come across the article before you posted it. I could have just copied a bit of it and pretended they were my own words.

Moving on...

Same here, Jalima. One of my best friends at school had a Polish father. Like many others, they had lost the 'ski from their surname and I didn't even realise they were Polish until I met her grandfather, who had a very heavy accent.

Daphne that was the excerpt I was going to put on, but I couldn't decide where to start or stop, as everything else was important.
I often have that problem, which is why I put links on most of the time.

And I try to avoid squabbles.

There were quite a number of Polish people living in my town and that was in the late 1940s 1950s onwards, because, of course, Polish airmen had come over here to fight with the RAF. 2nd generation were my age, well integrated, just part of our group in fact.

I accept you object Daphne as I object to links being opened , copied and pasted if not asked for

I read the i in the mornings with my grandson. He is 14 and is old enough to try and understand what's happening in politics. If we do not have an election until 2020, he will be voting in it.
I try and teach him about sociology and the environment as well as history and geography. They are on the syllabus.
We call it Humanities. Both his dad and his uncle gained O levels in Humanities.
What's shameful about that?

Sorry, ab, I really object to that. I'm not forcing my opinion on to anybody, as the numerous people who argue with me will testify.

People can choose to read the extract I copied and move on or they can disagree with it. It's up to them.

I agree with you, beammeup. It's all very well for Mary Beard or me to say that we should all 'play nicely'. Mary lives in a cosmopolitan city with a long history of integration and little deprivation. I live in a relatively affluent market town. There are very few people with non-EU heritage. I didn't even realise how many Eastern Europeans there are until I went to a Polish film festival at the local cinema. The place was packed. We actually have more of a problem with incomers from London.

I can afford to be airy fairy and liberal about immigration, but I seriously do understand how it must be if a person has lived in an area all their lives and there's a huge influx of immigrants. In East Anglia, most of them have arrived in the last 15 years, so the change has been quite sudden. In time, many of them will return home or integrate. I remember the first newly arrived Pole I taught soon after 2003. He spoke very little English and seemed quite exotic. Thirteen years later, I see him around, because he's a manager in one of the local supermarkets and his younger sister, who was brought up bilingually, has just achieved fantastic exam results and gone to university. Apart from having a Polish surname, nobody would identify these children as immigrants.

I am not sure if you mean that debate should be shut down trisher, or at least discouraged if you almost believe this government are quite happy to see the debate about immigration and anti-immigration arguments

Surely not - debate is essential and this is one of the major issues of the present time, not just in the UK but Europe - and world - wide. Stifling debate would turn it inward, underground, which would cause even more problems and could be dangerous.
It should never become 'the elephant in the room' and stopping people expressing their legitimate concerns in a rational manner could end up as a recruiting tool for such as the EDL.

Because you do doesn't mean everyone does Daphne, you are forcing another posters opinion onto all

Ahem! I just skim over posts I don't want to read. I copied it, because I know that there are some people who are reluctant to open links. It's central to my argument, but I'm not going to pretend those are my words. I'm not nearly so articulate.

Beam, Corbyn did praise his parents for their socialist lives, which school did they send him to? Same sivislidm as Diane Abbot it seems

Jen, shame on you for bringing your grandson into this ,

Cannot accept your apology trisher , nothing genuine about it, in fact it was another opportunity to accuse me of speaking in agreement with them ,

Daphne, if there is a link could you not leave it as a link not force it onto those who have no wish to read it

How do you get over the gut reaction to immigration? All the education in the world will not change attitudes.
I remember doing some classroom work on racism and was put in my place by a student who said; "it's alright for you, Miss, you live in a nice house in a nice area and don't see "nuffin".
She has a valid point that mst not be ignored just because YOU dislike it.

I don't almost believe it - I do believe it. For those who didn't follow jen's link from The Conversation, here's an excerpt from it:

"Corbyn’s other flagship idea is the migration impacts fund, which provides money to communities to help integrate newcomers. But this is definitely not new. It was something originally done under New Labour. It makes sense that if immigration makes money for the government, those resources are put where they are needed. If immigrants are net contributors, shouldn’t public services respond where newcomers live and work? The challenge in putting this in place is a familiar one – facing down populists and nationalists for whom spending any money at all that might benefit immigrants is unacceptable.

The time is right for a radical plan but this is no paradigm shift. The last big move on immigration by Labour was to wrap a more open approach in a kind of economic nationalism – more immigration was good news for UK PLC. In a sense they were proved right, but it was a failure to share those windfalls equitably that helped fuel a backlash."

I rather think Annie is talking about Intellectual Socialism.

I always feel more trust for the Alan Johnsons and Dennis Skinners of this world (although not in complete agreement) than Harriet Harman or that Tristram Chappie or the Milliband Bros. and now Corbyn with his Manor-house chilhood and selective education.

It's all rather "the zeal of the converted" and some people approach politics as Missionaries.

Anniebach I fully apologise if you regard the English part of EDL as a slur. I have seen and heard the vile accusations screamed about when our local EDL hold public meetings and I am so concerned that anyone should say anything to even suggest that their accusations have any value or any base in truth. By suggesting that it is immigrants who are the problem and not the level of deprivation that exists you actually give some credibility to their argument. I almost believe that this government are quite happy to see the debate about immigration and the anti-immigration arguments, whilst they successfully destroy public services. It means they can cut more because they can always blame the immigrants.

I've just read the article in The Conversation by the lecturer from Liverpool University. I can't see anything wrong with it. It summarises the problems Labour faces on the issue. The Conservatives have similar problems, by the way, but they have a smaller number of constituencies affected.

You're being stupid now, Annie. If I hadn't learnt from books and newspapers in the first place, I wouldn't have known anything about it. If I'd only read the newspapers that my parents read - and I learnt to read when I was four, sitting on my dad's knee, reading the paper - I wouldn't have known there was such a thing as socialism.
If people should only learn from experience, the pool of socialists would get smaller and smaller.

I used to teach adult education, basic literacy and numeracy.
There were women who could not read, and therefore could not improve their pool of family recipes because there was nobody to learn from after their mothers had died. I was teaching daughters at school and mothers at home, mothers who hadn't been out of the village for years because they couldn't catch a bus. They couldn't learn from experience because there was nobody to teach them. They were too ashamed to admit they couldn't read.

You really shouldn't sneer at those who learn from books and education. Far too many people would sneer at people like my grandson for their inability to understand what they are reading.
I am shocked at you.

Reading some of these posts, I don't hold out much hope of integrating different cultures, if people with basically the same views can't agree. Just saying ...

as I thought, knowledge of socialism from books not from experience , explains much