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Jeremy and the future
(449 Posts)That's it. Jeremy has won the leadership challenge with an even larger majority. Now can we please get down to opposing the Tories austerity measures that have nearly destroyed all our welfare society.
I don't think he is 'unelectable'! Listening to Radio Somerset this morning (not exactly a Labour area) the majority of callers were delighted. There were a few who quoted the media and seemed to think it was the end of the country, but most were saying they now had something to vote for at last.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8os-nKuoM3o
Doesn't shock me at all. I know some of them.
However, you said that there was no EDL in Wales and asked me to tell you where.
I did.
Make your mind up.
You obviously haven't experienced them, as you say that the only source of knowledge is experience.
You appear to be very dismissive of people who do not have your knowledge and experience of the Labour Party.
If I had only learnt through experience, I would not have been in the Labour Party. Neither would my husband. I came from a conservative background; his family were liberals.
If we had not taught ourselves about socialism through reading and education, how would we have become socialists?
We did not move in the elite circle you did/do.
Jen, this will shock you but there are English people living in Wales , don't make this public please, very few know this fact.
Oh dear! And people claim there's no racism in the UK!
To be fair, the South Wales 'division' doesn't seem to be very active in Wales itself, so maybe annie didn't realise there's a branch. The other point is that some of these right wing groups have a very visible online presence, but very few actual 'foot soldiers' - sometimes only a couple of dozen.
I'm not disputing that. However, they need to stop shouting and start behaving like civilised human beings and find solutions. Shouting won't solve anything. Otherwise, we'll descend into what Trevor Phillips called 'mutual bigotry'.
If you have a lot of time and are prepared for a long read, this is a link to Boston's report on the social impact of population change:
www.boston.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=8079&p=
It highlights a number of real issues, but also dispels quite a few myths.
The real issue is people's perception of the problem. I agree with you, beammeup, and it needs to be tackled head-on (easier said than done
).
daphne there lies the rub. People have not been 'allowed' to express their opinions on immigration since the late 90s?. It's only in the past couple of yrs that the BBC have even mentioned the word immigration. And now that people can talk about the problem they are shouting loud and clear.
You are quite the expert on Wales Jen - not. you even posted the Welsh Assembly leader supported Corbyn, seems you didn't know of the snub Wales received from Corbyn or the disagreements between Caerwen and Corbyn or the Welsh labour leader did not support Corbyn or Smith in the leadership contest
Now please tell me in which parts of Wales are the EDL groups please
It is Immigration that is fuelling right-wing parties!
Next year we will see Angela Merkel "punished" for her open-arms attitude to migration - Germany will no doubt move to the Right. Likewise in France, where Sarkozy will probably be back. Eastern Europe is already in revolt. Italy is very angry as it is flooded with migrants.
And people really expect Britain to turn Left?
There are EDL in Wales, Annie.
So true Daphne
trisher, please do not tell me how to think or what to believe in. By the by I am not English so your vicious accusation is wasted
. Gosh Corbynites are so nasty , bullies really, Momentum tentacles have a tight grip
@trisher
I agree that there needs to be solidarity, but that's not going to dissuade racists. The result will be further polarisation of views. People with concerns need to be able to express them and bars to integration need to be addressed. Once they are, then let people say what their concerns are. The only ones left will be racists.
Well put, trisher.
Ooops! Forgot to link to this article:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain
Yes, it is. However, what most people don't realise is that about a third of the population were originally London overspill. There are quite large Chinese and Pakistani/Bangladeshi minorities, who have nothing to do with the university, hospital or IT and pharma companies. It's also used to tourists, speaking many languages and wearing different clothes, and foreign students at the language schools. UKIP has never taken hold.
Boston is not that far away, but it's completely different - a sleepy East Anglian town, which relies on agriculture. I remember listening to local radio broadcasts, when the farmers complained that they had crops rotting in the fields, because they couldn't employ enough people to pick them. It used to have a fishing industry, but it's now virtually disappeared. It was a town which the late twentieth centruy passed by. Immigration has resulted in regeneration, but the locals don't see it like that:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boston-how-a-lincolnshire-town-became-the-most-divided-place-in-england-a6838041.html
The point I'm trying to make is that immigrants can't be lumped together as having the same needs or causing the same issues.
Trevor Phillips, former chair of the Commission for Racial Equality and the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said: “Integration doesn’t happen by accident – you have to work at it. If we want to avoid a slow descent into mutual bigotry, we need to drop the dogma, stop singing kumbaya to each other, weigh the evidence without sentiment, recognise the reality, and work out a programme – both symbolic and practical – to change the reality.”
My understanding of that is that we can't just say that immigration doesn't matter and brush the whole thing under the carpet. Nevertheless, racism must never be excused and there are solutions.
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The only source of knowledge is experience
Albert Einstein
I would imagine that a city like Cambridge would be more multi-cultural and used to seeing different nationalities, with the university and the hospital there, whereas Boston is more of a quiet, rural market town which has had a huge insurge of immigrants - who are needed to harvest the produce.
Jen,i do not dislike you, I always found your many links interesting, agreed with you on much. I find your obsession with Corbyn troubling and am not comfortable with your far left politics
I remember that. The problem with Mary Beard's view is that she lives in Cambridge, where there is a very different view of immigration from Boston. I've seen her a few times in shops and on trains/buses, so it's not really fair to say that she lives in bubble. She's also very approachable. Cambridge has a high immigrant population and was one of the few areas in Eastern England to vote Remain. It also currently has a Labour MP. The mistake Mary made was not to realise that the immigrants in Boston are different from the ones in Cambridge.
trisher, try fear of not getting a home or being unemployed . Or your close community is vanishing . The young can accept these, more difficult for older people
Yes compassion for immigrants but let's have compassion for those in fear too
I have no time for racism , have always fought it but I am not defending racists, I have put myself into the shoes of those in fear , I live in a Welsh market town surrounded by three mountain ranges, we will not have to adjust to big changes in our community because immigrants wouldn't want to live here , if they did I would accept Christ's teachings on who is my neighbour, but I understand if some cannot
@Im68
No, I don't know enough to challenge you. However, do you know what percentage of immigrants are refugees ie. have been granted asylum? My guess is that it's a very small percentage of the total, but am happy to be proved wrong. It seems like you're taking a sledge hammer to crack a very small nut.
durhamjen sometimes revered professors in renowned institutions are not really in touch with the real world, only with their own academic view of it.
Epitomised by Mary Beard when she appeared on QT in East Anglia, started pontificating about what it was like to live there and was shouted down by audience members who actually do live there.
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