Foreigners

It won't be published, there will be no naming and shaming of companies( not that the idea was to shame anyway.) The data is confidential.For all the outraged of Orpington ( yes, Petra it may well have been Kenny Everett ) do you all realise how much data there is 'out there' on all of us? Data gathering of this type is nothing new.

Dont forget hackers. All those handy lists.

I cant help thinking there is something slightly sinister about it.
I am not sure on my thoughts about it.

It has to be slightly uneasy when the government of the day/moment says this, and you know your employer is going to fill in a form and return it saying you are Polish or whatever.

Speaking as the OP I am happy that my 'scaremongering' may have contributed in some small way to this change of heart. As I said on here last Wednesday @ 17:20:43 -

"If, as you say, this is still at the consultation stage, then surely this is the time when we should speak out against it?"

Would today's about turn have happened if there had not been such a strong (perhaps OTT) reaction against the original proposal on facebook, twitter etc?

Off now to campaign against the arbitrary overturning by Central Government of the local refusal to allow fracking in Leicestershire and to celebrate the sucess of the campaign which has led to the Scottish Government banning UGE under the Forth and Tay Estuaries.

Just like the Mikado- "I've got a little list- they never will be missed."

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/blogs/through-the-k-hole/brexiter-wonders-who-will-look-after-granny/20032974.blog

Not surprised they have backed down on this daft idea. The Tories are always saying they will "cut red tape" to businesses and Ms Rudd seemed to be galloping off inventing yet another version of it. And an arduous one at that.
Maybe next week she'll suggest issuing gold star badges to be worn at all times by those who are not UK nationals.
Someone I know, who is fluent in 2 UK languages, is now applying for UK ciizenship. Her home is here. Her UK partner died and since the referendum feels would like to feel secure here and to have a vote in all elections. it is costing her "thick end of £2k" (she is not well off) and she is having to jump through the hoops of 2 silly tests that most of us would fail.

That's why my sons' partners are not applying. They have both been involved in educating English children for 15-20 years, and think they have proved they are part of the community.
They do not see why they should pay all that to have a piece of paper to show they know more about our government and country than the vast majority of British people.

Foreign nationals ,means anyone that isn't British either by birth or marriage.

Oh that's not enough to not be "one of them" any more
This year for the first year school census is asking for numbers on DUAL nationals, and nationals born outside of the uk

so it's not enough to be legitimately British any more, you have to be pure british to not count in the "other" numbers!

It was all rubbish when they said "we welcome people who integrate". So people integrated, got their residencey, and then got (and paid £1k for) citizenship thorugh naturalisation, and did everything they were told they should do if they wanted to be the "right" kind of welcome foreigner…… and now they're being counted as "other" anyway!

Oh and FWIW citizenship through marraige only exists on paper now, in practice it doesn't give any advantage in the naturalisation process, so having a british family doesn't really qualify you as not "other" now either

And because they now want to count dual citizens as "other" (even though they are FULL british citizens, just also full citizens elsewhere too), then it's not enough to be born and raised here to british parents, if you have a foreign grandparent through whom you have dual citizenship, you're "other" too!

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/08/boycottschoolcensus-why-parents-are-refusing-to-reveal-their-childs-nationality

These thinks aren't happening in isolation

wih the changes to the school census (and before anyone suggests it, NO! collecting nationality and dual national data is NOT about providing for ESL, because English as second language data was already accurately collected in the old style school census) added on to this employer thing… it's now past the point of a "conspiracy theory"

Because in order for it to be a "conspiracy theory", it has to be speculation. This is now actually happening openly!

Hard right reactionary policies. The UK has always prided itself on openness, tolerance and moderate policies. With luck this won't last, and common sense and a return to what is best about Britain will return.

That's why my sons' partners are not applying. They have both been involved in educating English children for 15-20 years, and think they have proved they are part of the community.
They do not see why they should pay all that to have a piece of paper to show they know more about our government and country than the vast majority of British people.

That's very brave.
I wouldn't be that brave.
I agree with and admire their point, but if I was settled with a partner and/or children and a life here, I would be getting all my ducks in a row right about now!
The HO has and does tear families up.

Hard right reactionary policies. The UK has always prided itself on openness, tolerance and moderate policies. With luck this won't last, and common sense and a return to what is best about Britain will return.

and the hard right are still saying "oh but we'll let the hard working nurses and doctors in"
Oh that's good of you. What makes you think they'll want to come now that Britain isn't the exciting fun open place it used to be?

www.wemove.eu/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=14187&qid=15463224

To ask May to stop the inflammatory attacks on EU citizens.
Sign if you agree with it and put on facebook if you can.

Women at their most vulnerable moment should be asked for their passports?
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/10/pregnant-women-could-be-forced-to-show-their-passportsat-hospita/

NHS entitlement is based on reisdency not nationality!

Asking women for their passports before they give birth is NOT checking their NHS eligibility, as you can be British and non resident and not eligible, or non british and resident!

These lists are not about what they're claiming to be about!

Lots of hospitals have people who come to them and claim to be staying with relatives here ( and they often are) but have come over not only to visit, but to give birth here, or to receive some other treatment.Why should we give them free treatment?I ask this as a reasonable question,as our NHS is not there for the free benefit of foreign nationals.
You wouldn't find a hospital anywhere in the world that handed out medical treatment completely gratis.

notanan Great, wonderful idea, long over due and I hope in time they carry this over to every procedure that people have in hospitals. I'm sick to death of people getting free treatment that me and mine have paid into for years.
Not what a lot of you want to hear, but it needs to be said. At the lowest estimate health tourism is costing £110 million a year.

I'm sick to death of people getting free treatment that me and mine have paid into for years

Does that include British nationals who haven't paid a penny into the NHS in years who fly back for healthcare?

Or just non british nationals who are resident in the UK and pay into the NHS

Because passports checks do not check for NHS eligibility
NHS eligibility is rightly based on residency, not on nationality

A non british person may have more right to the NHS than a British passport holder

"Does this include British nationals who haven't paid a penny into the NHS in years, who fly back for healthcare" If they are retirees, which many are, one could assume that they may have contributed for say 40 years or so before retiring overseas.

this as a reasonable question,as our NHS is not there for the free benefit of foreign nationals.

The NHS IS and should be for the benefit of foreign nationals if they are resident here

the NHS isn't for "British people", it is for "British residents"

A lot of "benefit tourists" which are included in the numbers are British passport holders who haven't paid a penny into the UK in decades but fly back and give a rellies address whenever they need treatment.

Asking people to present their nationality with the threat of no treatment when they are at their most vulnerable is not checking NHS eligibility

Terri, the NHS's own rules on eligiblity are that it is based on residency.

If a retiree choses to take their equity abroad, spend their pensions abroad, and spend most of the year abroad, they will lose their residency status, and if they are planning to not make the UK their resident country ,they should factor health care provisions into that.

but many don't, which is wrong

and checking passports doesn't test that

This is not about non British nationals who live and work here, they pay NI and are entitled as residents to any health care.
There may be procedures in place to charge British non residents ( depending on the country they live in)
All other ( non EU) as we are still in the EU, people that fly in on a visit and want treatment have no rights to our NHS at all.Health tourism has got to stop.

And terri, just because you think ex pats who use rellies addresses to defruad the NHS are in the right, doesn't make them less guilty of defrauding the NHS

And they know they're defrauding the NHS, otherwise why give a rellies address where they don't live?

And that costs the NHS money. Money quoted above in "health tourism" stats

This is not about non British nationals who live and work here, they pay NI and are entitled as residents to any health care

Yeah, except it's not, because they are not asking for residency status, they are asking for proof of nationality! not residency!

What would you have hospitals do, go to the addresses of British passport holders relatives to check if they actually live there?
Presumably, if they live in a EU country at the moment, it doesn't matter anyway.
The only practical check that hospitals can do is to look at passports.

Have you actually read the link, notanan?

The London trust behind the scheme said all those seeking to give birth would be asked for photo identification, or proof of right to remain in this country.