Foreigners

Doesn't matter, bags.
A refugee is a refugee, no matter what percentage of the population they are.
I was just saying that there are as many refugees in the world as there are people in this country.
We tend to think of refugees as just those few millions causing problems in the EU. There are a lot more.

How does 'Anti-West' manifest itself? I have not really been aware of this 'trend' Do you mean politically/ culturally or something else?

I think it does matter, dj. If things are improving, proportionally, that's good and maybe we're getting something right. If things are worsening, that's bad, and we need to know so that we can make changes.

I accept what you were 'just saying'. I just said something that was important to me too.

Both, pen. You really haven't been aware of it? Gosh. Probably needs a new thread.

At least some MPs are now talking about these ' children'

There is NO comparison at all with the Kinder-transport children, it's a different scenario as others point out,these children are in a safe country where there is no fear of being killed.They want to be in England, and if they really do have relatives here and we agree to take them, fair enough.

We can't be all that bad as a country, otherwise why do so many want to get in here.Yes, it does seem to be the trendy thing to knock Western society by those enjoying all our freedoms.

Roses it is not very safe in Calais for vulnerable and unaccompanied youngsters. I would not want any of my teen or even 20s aged nephews to have to be there. Easy from our safe homes to create stories about who these young people are to ease our conscience and not think too hard about them because they are probably really just Islamic fundamentalists and not terrified young men fleeing being press ganged into fundamentalist Islamic groups and forced to kill their friends, families and neighbours.

I totally agree Granny23. Rampant British nationalism is to be deplored. Nationalism is about dividing people into us and them -us and the foreigners. All types of nationalism are dangerous and deplorable-and that includes Scottish nationalism.

There is every comparison with Kindertransport children, roses, but if it eases your conscience, carry on...

it may not be very safe, and it will also be uncomfortable to live there,( why France have allowed them to is another matter, which nobody, either on here or in RL has answered.) However, it is still not the same as the Kinder-transport.I think your imagination is running away with you Penstemmon about them all being terrified young men, as we know that a big proportion of those at Calais are economic migrants.

what has my conscience or anyone elses on here got to do with it? The Government have taken children and are taking more from the camps who have relatives here.The jungle and other camps will be shut down this week, but the French have a duty of care to all children but have been dragging their feet on paperwork, from what we hear.

No, we don't know. That's just what some people say to absolve themselves from any responsibility.

From the Independent Catholic News.

'The Calais refugees are often called "economic migrants", coming to England for a better life. I have met many people in Calais over these months, and I have yet to meet one who has made the seven month, perilous journey for reasons of finance. Today was no different. I spent time with Jack, a translator for Care4Calais. Jack is 24 - but look at his life-weary eyes and he could easily be a decade older than that. He is a bright, gifted young man who speaks five languages, including Pashto, Farsi, Arabic and English. I asked him where he learnt his English. "Here," he said, "In the Jungle." He speaks fluently and clearly. He has been in Calais for five months, and he has been translating for the last two months. The reason I am with him, together with another Care4Calais volunteer, is to visit a section of the camp with sheets that picture some basic items - a hoody, jogging bottoms, body spray deodorant, a razor, toothpaste, a blanket, a T-shirt, boxer shorts and socks. Each person we meet can choose one high value item (hoody or joggers) or three of the cheaper items.

This system reflects what is in the warehouse, and the sheer volume of people: within 90 minutes, I had written out requests - known as "tickets" - for over 150 people requesting about 400 items; Jack translated constantly, patiently; he shifted between languages as we moved between Pakistani, Afghan and Sudanese refugees, all living perfectly peaceably together in the part of the camp we are ticketing. In the evening, volunteers at the warehouse turn the tickets into parcels with the specific items requested, and the next day there will be a time for collection in the camp. It is a superb system, developed just within the last few weeks. It gives the refugees an element of choice, it stops long queues in bad weather, and it means the refugees are not stuck in queues for items that may not be suitable or may run out. Multiply our 400 or so items by five - as five teams were out in different areas of the camp - and we have covered about 10% of the camp, with requests for 2000+ items.'

This doesn't address the question about exactly who are economic migrants.Pakistan is not at war, why are so many in Calais? Why don't the Afghan and Sudanese apply to live in France as they are already here? So, a great many ARE economic migrants.

Not all are 'refugees'

I agree I don't know what the proportions of economic migrants are compared to those fleeing life threatening situations. But you are pretty desperate to change your life to make the journeys these folk have made.

I am not sure why so many are vehement about not making comparison with the kindertransport. These were Jewish children & children of those politically opposed to the growth of the far right, who were being offered protection from the growing danger in Europe.

What is different to offering refuge to children from Syria, and other places, where the rise of the extreme policies of ISIS are a threat to them?

Yes, you have to be desperate in some cases, for others, not so much (from Pakistan) but you also have to ask yourself ( about the men, not talking unaccompanied children here) why they can't settle for a life in France instead of trying to get into the UK.

Home office figures. In the year ending Sep 2015 590 age disputes were raised against asylum seekers claiming to be under 18.
Of that number 574 were put through screening and 371 were found to be adults, lying about their age - 65%.
So am I and lots of other people wrong to be concerned about exactly who these men are?

From Amnesty.

Countries like Turkey and Pakistan host more refugees than all EU countries combined. Except for Turkey, no European country appeared among the top ten hosts of refugees at the end of 2014. Ethiopia, Kenya, Chad and Uganda were all on that list.

Within the EU, Sweden and Germany have consistently led the combined EU effort in receiving asylum claims and providing protection. France lags behind but for years has still received more than twice the number of asylum claims received by the UK.

Now Italy, Greece, Bulgaria and Hungary are among those far more affected than the UK.

Note that Pakistan has more refugees than all EU countries combined. So if people from Pakistan want to come here, why not?

Anyone want to read some good stories about refugees?

www.unhcr.org/uk/no-stranger-place.html

Lots more on this site.

It's very unfortunate that very young children have been over looked and are still in the soon to be demolished Calais camp, one little Afican boy had lost his mum and didn't look much older than 8 or 9. I do think some (not all) of the newly arrived migrants look adult. Having had two boys I'm well aware that there are a few years into early teens where voices break and facial hair starts to sprout, I even remember one of my sons had a friend who grew a full beard at 15 and then complained when he was challenged on buses over his eligibilty for a child fare, so yes there are blurred lines appearance wise between young to middle teens and what would be considered an adult. I think some pictures I have seen show a facial maturity that would be beyond the twilight years of a teen.

Had to laugh at the attention-grabber on the front page of the Sun today though -

Migrant 'children' look Forty

Slight exaggeration, I feel!

The kindertransport turned a lot of people away namely adults who were sent straight back to the concentration camps.

That is why the UN maintains refugees must be accepted.

That is why the brexiteers want to make their own rules. Good luck to them! Turn all away, just keep a few who are medically trained.
it disgusts me to read about it.

Disgusting suggestion that inaccurate X-rays used to check ages of these kids. Disgusting that David Davis is promoting this.