Foreigners

Well I'm the daughter of foreign refugees and I agree wholeheartedly with the new policy.

I've been speaking to many first & second generation British immigrants and they are very supportive of this sort of policy. They say it's the fact that too many illegal workers live here taking their jobs and undercutting wages that makes causes resentment among the indigenous population. This can make 1st/2nd generation scapegoats when the economy goes downhill.

Many 'foreign' people don't work for the sorts of large companies that will be required to state country of origin of their staff. Massive black economy of people working for cash in typical low paid jobs. We'd be lost without our Polish cleaners, painters, gardeners etc etc etc.

I wouldn't, as I don't pay anyone cash in hand.

Oh dear, trueblue22 that post won't go down well with some ( well most really) members of GN. The daughter of refugees not only knowing and understanding what's really going on but supporting the new government policies.
Very soon someone will be on to ' re-educate you' prepare yourself

roses you may not but thousands do and always have done. Not saying its right just that it goes on all the time.

Maybe she doesn't read Schoolsweek. Like I said, it's new.

Have you read all of the article? Why should the government need this information on every child?
The experts are suspicious about it happening just after Brexit.

"Illegal workers", if they are illegal, no policy will affect them.

petra it's my opinion from anecdotal evidence. It's also my own point of view, however popular or unpopular.

Most of the 58% who voted for Brexit did so because of uncontrolled immigration and the effect on the suppression of wages.

I'm sure it is valuable information if they are going to start English language classes where there are a lot of foreign language speaking children, or where girls have to take part in sports and swimming classes.
But I suspect information will be collected and nothing will be done as there is no money anyway.
It will upset those who feel like unwelcome foreigners especially after Brexit
Mrs May said today that white working class boys were the most disdvantaged- at least they are not foreign but it does not help them

@dj

It's been a requirement for quite a few years (as far as I know). If you look at the DfE's schools 'dashboard', you'll see that it states how many children there are with English as a second language. Ofsted reports always give details of pupils who speak English as an additional language and the number of children from minority ethnic groups. We used to be given computerised printouts with the pupils' profiles and they gave the pupils' nationalities and details of the first language.

May is right about white working class boys. The only thing which will happen is that projects to improve attainment might be able to attract funding. It used to be boys with Caribbean heritage, but no longer, because there were specific initiatives to raise their performance.

Warning bells should have rung years ago that there is a connection between white working class boys' attainment and the disappearance of manufacturing jobs.

Sorry! Meant to say that recording the nationality and country of birth is new. I also think the difference is that the children will be tracked individually for performance.

Daphne, it's been a requirement for a school to know who has English as another language, but not to collect place and date of birth, nationality, etc., and to pass the information to the government.
If you look at Ana's link, you will see it is different, and people are worried.
The school did not tell people they could opt out, either, which they can.
That's on another link on schoolsweek.

May said today it doesn't matter where you are born, but obviously it does.

I understood it was schools that could choose to opt out, not individuals.

Agreed - that's why I corrected myself.

Glad you spotted that, daphne. Crossed posts.
My grandchildren were born here, but are proud to be Danish. English is not their second language, but their first.
That's enough for the school to know.
After watching May's speech, my grandson asked if I would go with them if they went to Denmark. Not yet, of course, it would depend what happened about his mum's job.

According to the census guide, parents do not have to provide the information if they choose not to and schools can record the information as “refused”, “not known” or “not yet obtained”.

Persson said: “This is very important for schools to pay attention to. It is the first time pupils and parents are being given the right to opt out of any census data collection, using the term from the DfE guide, “refused”.

“Schools need to communicate this opt out choice very clearly in their new privacy notices to collect and process these data fairly. It could be very confusing for parents why some data is compulsory and not others?”

The census takes place three times a year – once every term. Next year, the census will be carried out on October 6, January 19, 2017, and May 18, 2017.

I have never felt concern about the requirement to give information about ethnic origin on various forms, since it is my belief that these questions are one way of establishing whether minority groups are receiving equal access to various services.
Some people may well believe that this new monitoring in schools has a similar purpose.

However, if I have understood this correctly, even if a child's "first" language is English, there is a request to disclose country of birth and nationality. I'm not quite sure what the reason is for this and, in the current anti-foreigner climate, I think it is understandable that some people are concerned about it, especially as it has appeared hard on the heels of Brexit.

Sorry, but I don't know what all the fuss is about. Our DS has been living in Aus. for over 3 years, he's a teacher, a very good one. Spent 5000 dollars to obtain Aus. citizenship and is yet to obtain a permanent teaching position because if an Ausy. born teacher applies, they always get the post.

As he says 'that's just the way it is'.

This smacks of post BREXIT hysteria to me.

Different country, Smileless.
We have always welcomed foreigners. Now the rhetoric is changing, and it's getting nasty.
Why is your son in Australia?

Fortunately, business leaders do not agree with the government on this.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/05/government-faces-backlash-from-business-leaders-over-foreign-workers

I wonder if it will fizzle out.

Smileless Is it actually enshrined in law that Australian-born applicants for teaching posts have priority over naturalised citizens? If so, I think it is disgraceful. If not, I think it should be challenged.

In any event, I certainly wouldn't hold up Australia as a shining example of how to run a country. Paul Stevenson, a well respected psychologist working with trauma victims, who was awarded the Order of Australia medal for helping victims of the Bali bombings, has said that nothing he witnessed was as bad as the treatment of asylum seekers in the Nauru and Manus detention centres. Amnesty has also spoken of the "appalling abuse and neglect of refugees".

Am I interpreting your post right. You think it is disgraceful that an Australian-born person should get an Australian teaching post before a non-Australian born person?

A certain A.Hitler made a big deal of distinguishing people who belonged to a nation, and those who merely worked there, but didn't belong to the nation. I think it was in Mein Kampf. Sounds a bit like Amber Rudd's suggestion.

I'm pretty sure we'll before Brexit I had to give the same sort of details on forms to our local council when applying to do adult education course, and even when applying for a permit for the tip for my van !Well certainly remember commenting to DH about the amount of information about our household required.But as I live in an area that has welcomed first and second generations of immigrants decades ago ,and our council has printed information in multiple languages over the years perhaps that information is genuinely very useful to them.