Brexit4

Welshwife

We will see, you may be correct but what changed their mind I ask from being so sensible. Hmm

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/06/german-industry-cannot-save-britain-from-hard-brexit-warns-merke/

Extracts

German car makers and other major industrial lobbies will 'not be able to insist' that Britain gets an easy deal in the forthcoming Brexit negotiations, the German chancellor Angela Merkel has 'warned'.

In a further 'hardening of the line' against Britain, Mrs Merkel told the annual conference of German industrial federations, the BDI, that defending the principle of free movement and the internal cohesion of the European Union would 'come before defending German exports to the UK'.

"If we don't say full access to the internal market is linked to full freedom of movement, then a movement will spread in Europe where everyone just does whatever they want,” she told business leaders in Berlin."

Burkhard Balz, a German MEP whose leading role on the European Parliament’s economic and monetary affairs committee makes him influential on financial services regulation, warned yesterday against expecting too much.

“No-one should under-estimate the determination of the German chancellor and the European Parliament to 'defend the four freedom'. Freedoms of movement is key for us – so key, in fact, that we will 'TAKE SOME DISADVANTAGES' to defend such an important freedom.”

That's why I call them PATHETIC and repeat the dogma of the EU Commission is more important than trade.

They might well get their way but the people of Europe might find their words and actions totally incompatible with what they know any country wants is to 'trade'.

Germany, Italy, France all have elections coming up , Switzerland is in contention over their referendum and immigration. If the EU peacocks are not careful it could be a decision taken out of their hands.

It astounds me that people are talking about this as if it is a new revelation. We knew about the process of leaving ages ago certainly before the vote and beyond. Ironically Britain played one of biggest part in constructing the rules for this process.

Can anyone tell me how you can have a single market with all that implies without free movement?

Hells bells.

In the meantime, Alain Juppé, the front runner to be the next President, is calling for UK border controls not to be done in Calais any longer, but be forced to move to Kent in UK. I can't say I blame them- can you?

That whitewave- is exactly what the other 27 are saying.

It wasn't just the Walloon MEPs that stopped CETA, it was all the Avaaz members and members of others concerned about TTIP and CETA who persuaded them that it was a bad idea. Millions of them through our MEPs who are still at work.
Democracy in action.
You can't complain that the EU is not democratic, then complain when democracy works.

All the time we've been 'in' we've been looking for 'opt outs', and now we're to be 'out' we're looking for 'opt ins'.

Re: the border controls being brought back to these shores - if we are withdrawing from Europe to define our borders, then they must certainly be returned to British soil. That's what people wanted wasn't it? I should think the French will heave a collective sigh of relief.

The Germans may decide that their car industry is more important than sticking to FMofP - but then the other 26 may disagree- or just one would be enough anyhow.

durhamjen. I don't think so.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/14/eu-canada-free-trade-deal-ceta-in-jeopardy-belgium-wallonia-parliament-vote

This is the latest news today.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/21/eu-canada-ceta-trade-deal-meltdown-canadian-minister-walks-out

"The Canadian trade minister, Chrystia Freeland, was on the verge of tears on Friday as she announced the “end and the failure” of talks with the Walloon government.

Leaving the Élysette, the home of the Walloon government in Namur, Freeland said: “It seems obvious that the EU is now not capable of having an international agreement, even with a country that shares European values such as Canada, even with a country that is so kind and patient.

“Canada is disappointed. I am personally very disappointed. I have worked very very hard. We have decided to go home. I am truly very, very sad.”

durhamjen

"You can't complain that the EU is not democratic, then complain when democracy works."

Was that to me?

I was stating facts, not sure what you mean.

One of my MEPs is on that committee. She sends me emails to let me know what's going on, and petitions against TTIP and CETA.
You can think that we have no influence. I don't care.
We knew that the only people who could stop CETA were the Walloon members. We petitioned them, millions over the EU.
Democracy.

Our democracy is not proper democracy. Democracy is when lots of individuals can affect a vote.
We have an oligarchy according to the Greek system of democracy.

This is why CETA and TTIP have both failed in the EU.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/ttip-trade-deal-agreements-ceta-eu-canada
(If you don't like guardian links here's a whole page of google results to choose from: www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=What+was+wrong+with+the+TTIP+and+CETA+trade+deals )

And quite rightly too. They were both deals which would make it well nigh impossible for participating countries to impose their own regulations on the quality of goods imported into their country. That they have been defeated in their current form is a real exercise in 'taking back control' (or, not actually giving it away).

The fact that these deals have been years in the making and have fallen at the last does illustrate that negotiating and implementing trade deals is a long, complex and uncertain operation.

Is the 'she' Jude Kirton-Darling by any chance?

"You can think that we have no influence. I don't care."

Again , what is that about?

"Durhamjen, I don't think so."
What is that all about?

Excellent Guardian article, MaizieD.
It explains perfectly why people object.

What worries me, is that post Brexit the urgent need to do trade deals to replace our current EU deals may mean that our government accepts deals which don't protect consumers in the same way as EU deals do and which hand too much power to giant corporations in the way CETA and TTIP were on course to do.

That's one of the problems I saw with Brexit, Maizie. The Tory government want TTIP, and so do Labour. Corbyn and afew Tory rebels have signed up to an anti TTIP agreement, but there aren't enough of them to overrule the others.

My main concern was the privatisation of the NHS by the back door, and the number of companies that could sue our government for loss of profits. People do not realise that clause is in these agreements. Fracking companies would have a field day. They wouldn't need to do the fracking; they could just sue the government or councils for not letting them do it. Pharmaceutical companies are another worry.

Now for a different matter. Can anyone give me ONE valid reason why the discussions should not be in French (if discussions will take place)? When only one country involved speaks English?

Non je ne peux pas vous donner une explication sauf que les britanniques ne parle que l'anglais

Moi non plus.

Just been on a modern language teachers' forum and there's a certain sense of Schadenfreude. Maybe Theresa May should have worked harder in her French lessons at school.

Out of the 28 countries involved in the EU, how many of them have English as a second language, and how many have French?

French is the fourth most widely spoken language in the EU, After English, German and Italian.

I honestly think Angela Merkel is right and this is a non-story. It is surely a basic function of the EU that everyone speaks their own language (unless they choose not to) and it gets simultaneously translated. There will be negogiations and the UK negotiators will set out what they hope to achieve (always assuming the government has a coherent policy or three by then). The 27 then get to decide to agree to it or not without UK input. The state of the CETA discussion doesn't bode well though.
Interesting to see reports of Andrea Leadsom saying that she couldn't refute the claim when asked in Select Committee if food prices would rise by 27% post Brexit.

Of the EU countries, only Ireland and Malta speak English as an official language, apart from the UK. Neither country declares English as its first language for EU purposes, so that Irish and Maltese are official EU languages. When the UK leaves, English will not be the first language of any EU country.

English is only the 'de facto' working language of many EU debates, because so many Europeans learn it at school. However, there's a trend for Eastern Europeans who want to 'get on' to learn German as well as or instead of English. It will be interesting to see what happens once the UK leaves.

Before the referendum, there was concern in the European Commission that there were too few UK civil servants with the necessary language skills to work there.