Brexit4

Customs union I think is the ambition. Although that would make Fox redundant -yeah!!!!

I'm not for one moment saying that anyone here would have said that dd. I wouldn't either; I live in the NE; it's grim enough without losing 70,000+ jobs...

I was just trying to express some of the unease I feel at the complete lack of sympathy there has been from some quarters for people who are already being badly affected by the Leave vote through no fault of their own.

As for 'Leavers' denying any responsibility for the consequences of their vote; I've heard that one too often "It wasn't me, Miss" ...

Niggly ' we too have had to cope with loss of income due to interest rates being so low for so long. Savings which once brought in a reasonable return are now virtually in minus and have been for years with no sign of improvement, in fact getting less and less with each passing year'...

now do you think that hasn't happened to us too- AS WELL AS losing 60% of income...

staggering comment - truly!

Maizie; you MUST understand, it's our MOANING that is causing all the problems. I have acunningplan [light bulb emoticom]. We'll stop moaning for a few weeks and then, as things carry on getting worse, no one can blame us.

Brilliant idea, Tegan.
Going to be difficult, though.

Do keep on moaning Tegan if that's what you want, nobody is denying you that luxury.
Nobody has said 'hard cheese ' to you granjura about loss of income, just that we who voted leave did so for many reasons , and not one of them was to do down any dual nationality couples or expats.
I must say I am surprised at the outrage by some because the government has given assurances ( in whatever form) to keep Nissan happy and the cars rolling which means job certainty for all those North East workers.Didn't they want the same for Tata Steel?

I think the point is rose that it is almost certainly promising something over which it has no control. It also would not be just Nissan but other industries like the pharmaceutical companies and others will be looking for the same assurances. It can't be done unless the government is promising stuff that it hasn't admitted to the country, like customs union or single market (unlikely)

Well said roses. Of course none of voted leave with the sole purpose of doing anyone down. We voted for seriously thought out reasons, and voted accordingly as was our right.
I understood you to say Granjura, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that 40% of your loss of income was due to reasons other than Brexit. 20% of course is unpleasant, but as I recall, nothing like the 60% attributed to leavers.

We don't know what the government has promised to Nissan as yet ( no doubt it will be leaked in due course.)

Of course none of voted leave with the sole purpose of doing anyone down.

But there was plenty of warning that the economy would suffer. Those who voted to leave despite those warnings might at least have the grace to apologise to those who have been adversely (and unwillingly) affected. As it is I've seen reactions varying from 'you'll just have to put up with it' to 'I have no sympathy for you' (I was extremely by that one...)

@Maizie You've cracked it! There are some people who couldn't care less what happens to other people whether or not it's Brexit-related. They always deny responsibility for anybody else's misfortune, because they (of course) deserve everything they have. Don't take it personally! I'm sure nothing I've written is relevant to anybody on GN. As you say, it's playground behaviour, along with name calling - and this is a site for mature adults.

We 'did' Nissan and Tata steel yesterday, roses .

A significant cause of Tata's problems was that it was being undercut by the cheap Chinese steel that was flooding the market.The EU had tried to control this by imposing a tariff but it was the UK who blocked the imposition...

Paying 'compensation' (or whatever they chose to call it) to companies, to offset extra costs they will incur by Brexit, to keep them in the UK is a rather different matter. And, according to a press cutting I saw on twitter this morning (unattributed, though it looked as though it was from the Financial Times), pharmaceutical companies are now asking for 'reassurances' too.

There is nothing to stop any internationally owned company (and most of our exporting companies are owned internationally) who is in the UK because it is an entry point to the EU market asking for 'reassurances*' too. Which will make a very big hole in whatever is saved from our EU contribution...

*because you can bet your life that 'reassurance' equals 'money'

Anyone watch Panorama tonight, about Rolls Royce and bribery?

What about Nissan and government bribery. That's okay, it seems. Similar sort of thing, offering money one way or another to a company to build what you want.

Government bribery mentioned on here as well.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/10/31/beware-guarantees-given-in-panic/

Exactly, Maizie. Ominously, the British government is going to be be pressurised into giving these companies money for political reasons to avoid massive unemployment and fall in GDP. Governments of course don't have any money of their own - it comes from raising taxes. So the UK taxpayers are going to see their money boost the profits of international companies, some of whom even avoid paying tax in the UK. Brilliant! Take back control and stop this madness!

@dj

Yes, I did watch it. I've read articles about Rolls Royce before about the suspicions that they're not acting entirely honestly. This was the first time I'd seen it all pulled together.

It makes me very sad that such a blue chip company as Rolls Royce - one of the best known UK engineering companies - is involved in such shenanigans.

Worryingly, the countries where RR is implicated in bribes are some of the same ones Liam Fox has mentioned before as potential trading partners. I really hope this isn't the kind of 'trade' he envisages, but I have a very bad feeling about it all.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/31/the-12-countries-where-suspicious-activity-linked-to-rolls-royce-has-been-identified

It's almost as bad as a Frederick Forsyth novel with the UK in the role of a third world country.

We certainly haven't apologised to my SIL for the way we voted and she certainly wouldn't want us to. We voted for properly thought out reasons as did they and both sides respect that. Aspects of the EU have concerned us for years not just recently,and we voted for what we believe to be in the best interests of this country as is the right of all of us, without the necessity of apologising to anyone who doesn't agree for whatever reason. I certainly wouldn't expect an apology the other way round.

Agree with you nigglynellie.

Unfortunately, nigglynellie, you're not willing to divulge those reasons, so many of us are still left with the impression that there is very little positive about leaving. I know I did my homework, too, and came to the conclusion that the country's best interest would be served by remaining.

Of course there's no need to apologise, but I do know that some young people (especially) are hoping that the UK will join again in the not too distant future with a new demographic of voter.

I am certainly not going to apologise for voting to leave -.why on earth should I? I thought very carefully before making a decision, and before anyone starts demanding to know the reasons I had for voting the way I did, those reasons are personal. The answer you would get would be "mind your own business", which is what the person doing an Exit Poll was told.

My DH goes into the Nissan factory regularly. They have recently built another massive extension . It is the most productive car factory in the world with the highest output per employee. Renault/Nissan were using the vote as a big stick/threat that they would pull out if the vote did not go their way. It is highly questionable as to whether they would have ever carried out their threat as the output and productivity would have fell dramatically if they moved to, say France. I think the "talks" that they have recently had with the government were always going to happen in order to assure the building of new models would stay at the Sunderland plant. It's about time the NE had some positive input from any government (although we don't know what, if anything has been promised) As we tend to be ignored regardless of which party is in power.

BTW I voted remain purely for the reason of protecting jobs in this country.

Ceesnan it is of course your prerogative for voting the way you did. But I do find it strange when people refuse to give their reasons- if you are proud of your vote, why not be proud to give your reasons?

And of course, if people do not give reasons, it would seem quite normal for others to attempt to guess.

So my guess, Sovereignty and immigration.

FGS...... some of us gave reasons back in June, some of us thought 'mind your own business'.... stop demanding reasons, it's childish.

There will certainly be no apologising from me either.

Interesting about Nissan gillybob Yes, it was questionable that they would have left anyway, but glad they stayed and are expanding.