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clinton v trump

(137 Posts)
Nellsbells Thu 27-Oct-16 14:32:02

he seems to be such a joke that i can't imagine anyone in their right mind voting for him... so what are people voting for?! Is it his racist slurs that attract followers? His disrespect for women?

I know Hillary isn't perfect,but she seems a damn sight better than him...

grannypiper Fri 28-Oct-16 12:11:26

Anya, that is Tony Blair to a t

TriciaF Fri 28-Oct-16 12:22:41

Lewlew and Rinouchka - very interesting posts, thanks.
Maybe the UK isn't much different, just lagging behind.

grannypiper Fri 28-Oct-16 12:23:14

Whilst i would never vote for Trump, i dislike the fact that ANYONE who dares to cast a vote in his favour is seen as a thick racist who hates anyone who is in the slightest bit different to themselves. Many millions of people agree with him and will vote for him so they cant be cast aside as idiots, maybe they are fed up with being at the back of the queue or are fed up being called racist or being told that the book they see as holy doesnt matter and that other peoples holy book matters more, or ANYTHING that upsets them is their problem because they ARE wrong to be married to someone of the opposite sex or the very fact they are married ! Forget Trump and ask why so many people are willing to say I NEED A VOICE

willa45 Fri 28-Oct-16 12:51:02

Since I'm American, I'll start out by saying I'm not a Trump supporter. I guess the operative question is how can anyone in their right mind support him? So where to begin? He doesn't have any clear policies, other than building a wall to keep out Mexican immigrants, but there is something much deeper at stake here.

There are many closeted bigots, racists and misogynists among his followers, as well as angry right wing extremists who love their guns. These are all people who have found a like minded 'hero' in Donald Trump, who (through his own empirical actions and astounding rhetoric) has given them 'permission' to release and even flaunt their inner 'Kraken'. Other more sane supporters believe that because he is anti establishment he represents a welcome change. To them I've said, "Be careful what you wish for!"

Truth is Trump doesn't have what it takes. He is self aggrandizing, narcissistic, thin skinned, petty, vindictive, and immature. He doesn't belong anywhere near the White House, much less in close proximity to any nuclear red buttons. Stated more simply, a disgruntled child who lacks a steady temperament cannot be an effective head of state and a leader and a bully are two very different things.

Hillary Clinton has political baggage, part propaganda and part truth; but none of it in my opinion, is relevant enough to deem her unfit. Having said that, she is the only other alternative we have and that is why many Republicans like myself are supporting her. She may be not be perfect, but she does have the experience, the temper and the qualifications to be a good President. Having our first woman President will also a source of pride.

tanith Fri 28-Oct-16 13:06:48

Well said willa45, I hold my breath at the outcome as its by no means a 'done deal'.

GrannyFirstLight Fri 28-Oct-16 14:57:34

Anya - you've obviously met my husband!

Witzend Fri 28-Oct-16 15:02:43

I often think that much of America - at least the vast area away from both coasts - is on quite another planet from us, so it's no use making comparisons. Politically I think we have far more in common with many European countries than with the US.

My sister has lived in the US ( Massachusetts) for well over 30 years and is a staunch Democrat, but she doesn't like Hillary at all - far too pally with the bankers and big business in her opinion. Needless to say she loathes Trump, so she'll have to hold her nose and vote Hillary on the day.

I do find it strange that such a large country with so many well educated people is unable to produce two better or more appealing candidates than these.

Yorkshiregel Fri 28-Oct-16 15:45:31

All I can say is 'Is that the best they can do for candidates for the top job?' Surely they have well educated, honest, non-aggressive people in America? Obama was great imo.

I would not even bother to turn out for either of them.

The last two 'debates' were just a slanging match, and each of them were scouring everything to find some dirt on the other. Well I suppose they are politicians aren't they.

Yorkshiregel Fri 28-Oct-16 15:48:19

If Trump gets in there is no chance of America giving up on guns. If Hilary gets in it will be her husband pulling the strings and we all know what a plonker he was as President.

The worry is that if Trump gets in, and Putin is hell bent on WWIII God help us, because they might between them wipe this planet out.

Disgruntled Fri 28-Oct-16 16:27:45

I went to see John Pilger last night and, horrifyingly, he said he thought Trump might be the better bet, because in his more lucid moments he has said he would talk to Russia, whereas Hillary won't. He reckons she could be the most dangerous president ever.
OK, not I'm going to put my head back in the sand where it belongs.

Lewlew Fri 28-Oct-16 16:55:22

Grannypiper ... what's with all the hate?

Things that a UK or European citizen who has not lived in the US would not understand come into play.

America is very racist compared to Europe. Mixed race couples are still 'stared' at. Just as in this country, religious freedom is a right, but you would not know it as only Christians and Jews enjoy that freedom. Being non-religious or pro-science is especially frowned upon in the 'Bible-Belt'. So much for separation of church and state (in the Constitution).

The right to own as many guns as you wish with the least amount of background checking is a huge right-wing platform. (Selling guns is big business, so the 2nd Constitutional amendment is sacrosanct). Even moderate Republicans want to keep guns out of the hands of those on the no-fly list, but they get shouted down.

Access to reasonably priced healthcare is not a right in the US. The Affordable Healthcare Act (Obamacare) is seen as a sin of the highest order. There will never be an NHS in the US. After age 65+ and you go onto Soc Sec, you get access to Medicare, but it requires huge top ups now. My friends are paying upwards of £1000.00 a MONTH for 'Medigap' for them and their spouse. Except for highly-paid people, or strong unions, no one gets healthcare as part of a retirement package. In fact, the big car mfrs have been in a mess trying to fund union retirees healthcare plans. Going broke!

Finding ways to NOT pay your income tax is seen as a virtue of the highest order to be pursued with as many lawyers and accountants as you can afford. (Look at the trouble Greece and some other Med countries are in because of this). Or in the alternative, go under the radar and work cash in hand...but you won't gain any state pension that way. But never ever pay your taxes willingly, even if you are paying a low rate.

The list is long...

Yorkshiregal Bill Clinton was a good president. Crappy husband, but a good president. Trump is a serial adulterer, has dumped two wives because they got too 'old'. He has a foul mouth and a thin skin. He does not want to be president. He wants to win an election. I am more and more convinced he would find the life too restricting. People telling him what to do, when to do it, all day long. If he truly wanted to be president, he'd do more to inspire confidence in potential voters. He is not, he is throwing votes away.

He's got problems that cannot be fixed now. His polls have tilted since the tapes have come out about his star status entitling him to molest women. I watch the feed on my old hometown newspaper and the tide there has turned against him whereas before it was rather pro-Trump. He screwed up big time.

I feel badly for Republicans like Paul Ryan, John McCain, even Mitt Romney. But as I said in a previous post, only the most persistent and obnoxious people are willing to put themselves out there to be raked over by the press and opponents.

Something has to change.

Lewlew Fri 28-Oct-16 16:56:41

Well said, Willa

Rinouchka Fri 28-Oct-16 18:04:21

Thank you, Lewlew. You express my thoughts with clarity.

Grannypiper: I don't think any of the above posts from non-Trump supporting Americans suggest that all Trump supporters are racist. But the truth is that racism and xenophobia exist in the minds of a great many of his supporters. His thoughts mirror what they feel. Why they feel so hard done by is an important point, I agree. But is the answer to their problems to be found in the person of this rich, egocentric billionaire?

Such a wide number of Americans have been whipped into a frenzy by a man who sees himself as a winner and those who oppose him as losers. The sad thing is that, actually, he is not the least bit interested in them.

It is not differing opinions which is the problem here.

Lewlew Fri 28-Oct-16 18:13:15

Such a wide number of Americans have been whipped into a frenzy by a man who sees himself as a winner and those who oppose him as losers. The sad thing is that, actually, he is not the least bit interested in them.

You got that absolutely spot on! He has no concept of public service, and never will have, full stop. angry

grannypiper Fri 28-Oct-16 19:10:58

Lewlew, there is no hate from me, but plenty of others are willing to hate, i just think that although Trump is outspoken there are plenty of normal well adjusted, well educated people who will vote for him and THEY cant all be racist as some seem to think

Morgana Fri 28-Oct-16 20:10:38

So why are the F B I now pursuing hillary Clinton again re those e mails? I wonder why they want her to lose?

Lewlew Fri 28-Oct-16 20:25:37

Morgana The FBI director, James Comey, is a Republican. Even Senator Cornyn (R-TX), the number two Republican in the Senate is wondering why this timing. Either he loves Trump or just is trying to save the Republican Party in a twisted way.

Even stranger... Comey was appointed by Obama! I wonder if he will have a job still under Hillary? What's the point in this timing except to do damage.

I still scratch my head over Guiliani's support of Trump...

Iam64 Fri 28-Oct-16 20:28:06

Lewlew, thanks to you and the other American posters here. it's great to have your views. My American friends living here have already voted for Hilary.

granny piper - I don't see how those well educated, normal, well balanced people you talk about could vote Trump. I also don't see how they can't all be racist as you suggest.

Luckygirl Fri 28-Oct-16 20:29:30

I find it very scary that the FBI have chosen this moment to try and sink the Clinton campaign - in whose pocket are they?
Is there really any democracy in the US?

Iam64 Fri 28-Oct-16 20:33:51

Makes you reflect on all the conspiracy stories that suggested the CIA and the Unions were behind the assassination of JFK. No offence meant to anyone by the way.

Anniebach Fri 28-Oct-16 21:35:27

People who are not racists wouldn't vote for a racist , so trump supporters are racists in my opinion

Lewlew Fri 28-Oct-16 21:37:11

I read a lot of Robert Ludlum's BOOKS (long before the movies). The Chancellor Manuscript was the story of the likely assassination of J Edgar Hoover. When I finished the novel, I was convinced he had been murdered by a select group of 'officials' to protect the public. Scary!

Anyways... I would think certain positions should not be political appointments, like the CIA, NSA and FBI directorships. They should be administered by a proper high ranking civil servant. (Not a Humphrey!!). This is how these things happen. And, the US Supreme Court, which is supposed to be impartial, has not been for half a century or more.

The system of Checks and Balances we were taught as school children does not exist among the Executive (Presidency), Legislature (Congress) or the Judicial (Supreme Court) which was created to prevent any one or more of them getting too much power.

Thanks all for listening and commenting... even if you disagree, it's good to question and debate. Sadly, that does not seem to be permitted among my family and friends in the US.

So it seems Trump is truly making America hate again... even his loss will leave a legacy of bad feelings for quite some time.

God help the US if he gets in. Hoping there are enough Republican voters who are willing to give up 4 years to the Democrats as an insurance policy. They have a better chance to regroup and come up with a better field of candidates next round than if Trump gets in. Him getting in now would likely hand the election back to the Democrats in 2020.

I am very grateful to be a British Citizen. For all the problems of living in a densely populated island nation, things seem to work out without roaring into civil war!

Loving Gransnet... am so glad I discovered it. Hope to see my DGD next week. She makes all my troubles seem trivial. smile

Lewlew Fri 28-Oct-16 21:42:11

Why a lot of people will vote for Trump while doubting his qualifications? They mistakenly think the Republican party will rein him in. NOT. He insulted everyone in the party's central group of influence. Called all his fellow candidates liars all the time. Haven't seen anyone near him with a barge pole now except Juliani and his running mate, Pence...who seems ambivalent about him as well!

Also, without any reservations or restrictions...

He's pro gun
He's pro gun
He's pro gun
He's pro gun
He's pro gun
He's pro gun
He's pro gun

and he's going to build a wall and make Mexico pay.

End of story!

Anniebach Fri 28-Oct-16 22:52:37

The gun lobbyists are at work

Morgana Sat 29-Oct-16 10:24:50

Fascinating though very scary comments.