A bad day for the world

In politics you have to talk to and interview all sorts of people not just ones you agree with! Krushkov (sp?!) talked with Kennedy, Ceaucescu (sp) was entertained at Buckingham Palace, the Chinese also, track record on human rights? dismal and that's putting it mildly!! I think we all agree that Stalin caused more suffering than the Nazi's, but at the end of, and during the war he had to be talked to. Ignoring the potential rise of ultra right wing politicians won't make them go away, in fact it could have exactly the opposite effect! It's up to others by reason and conversation to convince the electorate that these policies are wrong. As seen in Brexit, bullying, arrogance and a sense of entitlement is detrimental making some of the general public dig their heels and take an opposite view just to put two fingers up at the establishment. Let Le Pen have her say, any clever politician shouldn't have too much trouble trashing it! (we hope!)

Yes! Well said, niggly in your first sentence! I've just been reading about exactly that in this article by Ian Leslie entitled Why We Need to Listen to Racists. He uses a great phrase: "preaching to the unconverted" and talks about how useless that is. The left needs to stop preaching from its moral high ground and listen to people it profoundly disagrees with. Quite apart from anything else, it needs to do this because right now it is losing.

Wait for the state visit of Trump, rolling through London in queenies carriage
I feel sorry for HM, she has to be ever the diplomat.

Hope his fake orange tan doesn't rub off on the upholstery of the carriage.

Tim Shipman (@ShippersUnbound) on Le Pen: "Ridiculous for people to protest about BBC interviewing Le Pen. She might be the next French president. Daylight the best way to spot dirt."

The left needs to stop preaching from its moral high ground and listen to people it profoundly disagrees with. Quite apart from anything else, it needs to do this because right now it is losing.
Well said, because the inability to listen to ordinary people and their core voters will mean that it will be a very long time before they gain power.

I am not sure that moral high ground is an apt term for people who assume a position of superiority, political and intellectual, and a total disdain for anyone whose views deviate even slightly from theirs or people who they believe to be their intellectual inferiors.

They may think they are on the moral high ground but is it moral to despise others in such a way?

I am not sure that today was the best day to broadcast the interview, although she has distanced herself from her father's views on the Holocaust.

It just seems to me that people like Farage, Trump, Le Pen seem to get more coverage that other politicians. The S.O. feels the same, although I understand that coverage is supposed to be equal for everyone. Having seen part of the the programme about Trump last night and seeing/hearing for the first time the reference to the lady reporter who questioned him [blood coming out of her eyes and probably other places]I feel even more nauseated seeing/hearing the man.

Andrew Marr apologised for showing it today. I don't see why he couldn't have shown it next week. It was pre-recorded, after all, unlike Corbyn's which had to be shown earlier than normal so he could go to the cenotaph.

I think Tegan that you are correct. We know that there are more media outlets (press/TV etcc) owned by those who hold right of centre political views. They are big business and money is power. It is in their interests to promote a right wing agenda and to denigrate alternative opinions. It often has nothing to do with truth or reality just the desire to maintain control and power!
I am sure we all have experience of how local papers misrepresent situations that we 'know' about personally. Multiply that by 1000 % and we have some elements of the the national media across the world!

Le Penn may have distanced herself from her father's view on the Holcaust but she is equally right wing!

thatbags What a marvellous piece of journalism by Neil Oliver ( on previous page)
It was spot on, and predictably argued about and denied by posters who no doubt felt uncomfortable reading it.Thanks for posting it.

www.thecanary.co/2016/11/12/farage-become-economic-migrant-bbc-looks-replacement-bile-spewer/

The Canary, a website start-up last year, is now one of the top 100 websites for news.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/nazi-stickers-put-up-across-12169404

This is what is encouraged by the right-wing policies today.

The idea of listening is an interesting one. The central tenet of my social work training many many moons ago was: "start where the client is" (in the parlance of the time). The point being that if you do not accept where your (in this case) political opponent is starting from and clearly listen to what they have to say, they are not going to listen to what you have to say. And who can blame them? You cannot counter or oppose an argument that you have not taken the trouble to listen to in the first place - and be seen to listen to.

In social work terms it meant that you did not have to like a person's value systems or life decisions, but you had to listen and understand them in order to get anywhere in helping them with their problems.

Silver lining for the UK?

www.indy100.com/article/barack-obama-uk-prime-minister-7410116?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100

Boris was born in the US.

Well said Luckygirl. Very true.

www.indy100.com/article/canada-election-united-states-democrat-immigration-secession-7415136

Something else that probably won't work, either..

Not dissimilar in a school context either luckygirl You have to work positively and professionally with all families regardless of differing home/school/personal values.

I have valued friendships with people who I know hold different opinions to mine on all kinds of issues, I listen to their perspective and they to mine. It is what civilised people do!

Now if only we can get the politicians to listen to us as well.

Although, at long last, they do seem to be listening.

nigglynellie, i think i would vote for you

Lots of passionate defending of 'democracy going on at present but everyone seems perfectly happy with our deeply undemocratic First Past The Post system of voting in elections.

durhamjen, just seen your post RE the breakdown of the vote, how on earth can the tell which way anyone voted ? it is all B/S AND BAFFLE votes are private so they must have conjured these statistics out of the Easter bunny's hat,we all know how unreliable the polls were.

The troubles in Northern Ireland were only brought to an end by talking to gerry adams and his co-horts. Sometimes you have to talk to vile people.

Without the first past the post system UKIP would have been a force to be reckoned with in the Commons with 83 seats.

Is that what you mean you would prefer MaizieD?