Brexit 5

In the debate on the Second reading of the Referendum Bill (voted through by a landslide of most MPs except the Scottish Nationalists), there was a golden opportunity for MPS to insist that plans were in place whatever the Referendum outcome. As far as I can see, nobody did. I find it hard to take criticism now for voting Leave from MPs that voted for a Referendum and did not take the obvious possibility of a Leave vote into consideration.

Euroscepiticsim is not, as some seem to suggest, something new. It probably started in 1960 with Hugh Gaitskill, the Labour leader, and has ebbed and flowed ever since. Its early roots, and major part now, were about sovereignty. Successive governments have passed more and more powers to the EU without referring to the public. When they have asked the public, the majority said Leave.

When the UK voted to Remain in 1975, 33% of the voting public were disappointed but accepted the judgement of the majority. How times change.

Couldn't care less!

That doesn't say much for your political knowledge, Ana, if you do not know the difference between Geoffrey Howe and Ken Clarke.

Or of course it could have been this one, as so many more people apparently read the DM than the Guardian...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699145/Thatcher-tried-sell-NHS-I-blocked-Ken-Clarke-says-rejected-plan-dreadful-American-health-system.html

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/25/margaret-thatcher-pushed-for-breakup-of-welfare-state-despite-nhs-pledge

Is this the article you mean, Azie?

I think it's quite terrifying to realise that there were no post Brexit plans because the referendum was a ploy to deal with internal Tory party strife and the result was expected to be a no to leaving. It's hardly acceptable behaviour but who can blame Cameron for walking away, he knew perfectly well what the future held. When two former PMs, never mind many others, are coming out in public and just asking if this is wise, I think that is an indication of the level of concern we should be feeling.

I'd be happier if I thought there was any real indication of solid prospects for the future but we have daily speculation around agreements we might make (usually denied by the government of proposed new partners in trade), the government paying companies to stay here and people in the leave camp extolling us to be brave, patriotic and positive on the basis of absolutely no real knowledge of the inside story - and the latter is a good reason for never having held the referendum in the first place. Running a country is not like running a household, not least because international politics regularly gets in the way.

Did anyone see the story released the other day about Thatcher's cabinet wanting to privatise healthcare? According to Geoffrey Howe, it caused a riot in the cabinet but the plans were concrete and she was determined to push it through but failed. That's the kind of thing that goes on that none of us knows about and it's the kind of thing that is part of the reality of politics - playing to the entrenched interests of powerful but hidden players. Prime minister's rhetoric about looking after the JAMS is just chicken feed intended to keep the masses off the street!

We had but one vote each. The likes of Murdoch, the Barclays, Aaron Banks, etc, poured £Millions into persuading others to vote their way in order to secure their own financial gains. Do you really think they were thinking of you when they poured their money into the campaign?

Did Boris and co really care about you and the families of this country and not their own selfish political gains?

Every single one of us will pay the price. The eye watering sum of £2trillion of borrowing P Hammond casually dropped in last Wednesday's budget, will of course have to be paid back by our children and grandchildren.

We need to rethink the propaganda that as the country didn't collapse after the vote,though the currency did, that everything is going to be just fine. Do people really not to realise the difference between the referendum and the reality of Brexit?

Democracy is found in the judgement of the High Court which ruled the executive of 3 MP’s cannot trigger Article 50, only Parliament can.

I thought we lived in a democratic society - obviously that only suits some when the vote goes their way.

Not pawns at all? Not being sacrificed for an ideology?

We are not 'pawns' at all, over 17 million voted to leave the EU because we thought it would be better to be shot of it.Our decision, our vote.

Well, we'll be all right now Blair's on the case...

The Daily Express managed a headline claiming £32 million, possibly billion, bonus from Brexit this week. The very same newspaper/rag claiming Syrian refugees were responsible for rapes, child abuse and death threats last week. So much for misinformation. Brexit isn't about democracy, it's about a power struggle with the likes of Rupert Murdoch, the Barclay brothers (who own the Ritz and the Daily Telegraph), Aaron Banks who spent £7.5 million on the Leave campaign, Richard Tice, a property developer and Leave campaign promoter, others who stand to gain big time from Brexit and various Eurosceptic Tories keen on Brexit. We are but pawns in their game and it's us ordinary folk who pay the price.

Billion.

The whole excercise is beginning to look more and more like economic suicide with a few right wing raggle taggles trying to make out they know what they are doing.

yet productivity in the Uk is dismally low looking at recent figures. No amount of bigging up a few welcome small deals will paper over the huge deficit in the balance of payments and the eye watering estimate of the cost of Brexit - can't remember the exact figure -was it £200m?or billion?

After a few weeks as a YouGov member I left in despair at the badly designed, repetitive questionnaires, thinking that that members who stuck it our must seriously need to find something else to entertainment.
JLR will have been planning this for years and the PM dressing up in a gold sari (and offending people with her immigration policy) is unlikely to have anything to do with it. They have a a network of successful plants in the Midlands and a modernised workforce .

They will no doubt use the steel they produce in their Port Talbot plant. Good news if it comes off.

Jaguar Land Rover to invest in new plant in the midlands. Where was Theresa May a few weeks back, India. And people said it was a wasted trip.
Admittedly they want £450 mil infrastructure from this government. Small change in the big scheme of things.

Yes, that is correct and it is why I mentioned the YouGov website for more info about the figures they give.

A Yougov poll is self selecting, so 68% of those who chose to respond to this particular poll, not 68% of the general population.

Drat and double drat!

...people think the government should...

people think

MrBags has just told me that, according to the latest YouGov poll on Brexit, 68% of people should go ahead with Brexit. More info and more statistics on the YouGov website.

You couldn't make it up.
What did Farage think would happen?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-brexit-march-cancelled-supreme-court-far-right-article-50-a7439246.html

You think Brexit hasn't opened the door to extremism?

Well said cunco!