The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

There is an ocean in between

However, I've never met anyone in the UK (apart from Farage and I've never met him anyway!) who thinks Trump is a good thing - whatever they voted in our referendum.

Brexit is happening. Get over yourselves. For me it means a free and brighter future for my son even though he doesn't think so yet. Im not a racist nor is your mother either dap. Stop bandying such a stupid scream of a word about.

Absolutely. But I don't think anyone's said otherwise.

The point is that I can understand how granjura feels. I expect we all put with people with annoying little foibles, but when it goes beyond that and you despise the views which other people hold, it's just not worth it.

Yes, I can understand that.

There's no point in trying to discuss anything with her, but she's my mother. If she weren't, I would have nothing to do with her.

Hmmm! What relationship? We didn't have one. My mother is a racist, who can hardly get through a conversation without referring to 'others'. She knows perfectly well that I find her comments offensive, but in the last few years, I just take a deep breath, bite my tongue and sit on my hands.

(posted before I read your latest post)

How interesting, daphnedill. How did the friendship affect your relationship with your mother?

Jalima: "But they did mention respect for other people's points of view. Many of the problems in the world are because of an intolerance of other people's views and a feeling of self-righteousness and self-justification without any empathy for other people who may have their own hopes and fears."

I agree, but I've come to the point where I am increasingly intolerant of other people's intolerance. For years, the irony caused me problems, but I think we're at a point where those who advocate tolerance have to fight back. There definitely is a fine line, but there are issues which I cannot accept.

My mother's best friend was a Nazi - a real one, not just some right-wing nutjob. She associated with people like Colin Jordan and the friend moved to Munich to be in the centre of what was then the centre of European neo-fascist activity. It wasn't until after this woman died and my mother read the obituaries in the neo-nazi online sites that my mother finally accepted what I'd be saying all along.

My mother would sometimes invite this woman for Christmas`and I refused to see my mother when she was there. It was impossible to argue with her, because she was totally irrational. She was a white supremacist, who denied the Holocaust and had absolutely no problem with exterminating Jews, anybody with black or brown skin, gays and the disabled. She was so extreme that when she had an op, she insisted on using her own donated blood for any transfusion. She was scared of being injected with 'black blood'. She was my godmother, so it could be awkward at times.

Jalima, staying at home indeed. With my dids and their spouses, and my sil and bil we normally spend Xmas with, there would be no problem at all anyhow.

But with my US Trump cousins, although we get on so well and have had such brilliant times in the past, their recent outpourings about the Obamas, and their staunch support of everything Trump- I shall never see them again. That is fine- sad, but fine. There is a fine line. and it has been crossed- life is too short, and I just could not agree to disagree about blatant racism and denial of climate change, etc.

We can hypothesise but no-one knows what they would do in a given situation

DH and I are firm remainders, DS voted leave as did my sister (brain washed by her NHS Union -in her own words) my dad voted remain. We shall enjoy a Christmas together as usual and I doubt Brexit will be up for discussion. I too have put 5 on Brexit Island in someone's stocking merlotgran I couldn't resist a peep before I wrapped it and it is quite funny, however you voted.

Why ask all these hypothetical questions? What's the point of it when the vast majority of us don't know anyone remotely like that? Barking...

Oh

I have no idea, I have only met one person like that and never saw him again, he was DD's friend's father (Afrikaans)

I thought she wasn't going to, Jalima. She was just asking others what they would do.

Well, I don't think I have any extremist relatives, American or otherwise, either to the left or to the right.

Why are you going to spend Christmas with them granjura?
Stay home!

I would tra and discuss sensibly - but discussing sensibly with Tea Party Trump supporters who swear by Fox News and support the KKK, is not easy, say impossible.

So I would quietly get up and leave- best that way.

Wonderful for you.

I would always keep away from politics, Brexit included- at family get togethers - sadly other members of the family would not- so best to avoid at the moment with them.

I am only reporting what youngster expats here have been saying about dreading visting parents and other leave relatives (mainly old aunts and uncles)- as they fear they will not be able to keep stumm- this especially if their lively hood abroad, their jobs, their research grants, etc, etc, are at risk.

None of you ahve responded- how would you feel about sharing the table with vociferous Trump supporters, who will talk abut Mexicans being rapists, how he wants to massively add to the nuclear arsenal to frighten Putin and Kim Jung, and the like. Would you feel comfortable when they mention how Obama is a Muslim AlQuaida supporter and spy, etc, etc.

Yes Niggly you are right to highlight the difference between discuss and argue.

Well, in our family, our daughter voted remain, son a reluctant remainer, (lots of pro's and cons) and we voted to leave. We're all getting together at Christmas together with a turkey? and everything else that goes with it, including three grandchildren. We haven't a problem with each other over the referendum and we all accepted from day one that it was a free vote and that we were all entitled to our opinions and our views. Why would we quarrel about that? If we do discuss it it we shall undoubtedly agree to differ. Help! I think we too are those elderly parents!!!!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk

It depends on how much that 'view' will change the circumstances and opportunities of others.

Have you considered the Trump/Tea Party scenario.

Tolerance I am all for- but up to what point. There is a fine... and massive line. Consider some of the political regimes now and in the past- at what point to you stand up and say 'I will not be tolerant about intolerance, like racism' ...

It depens too how others with different 'views' have goaded and attacked- saying, as my cousin the USA Vicar said at the table at Thanks Giving in his address to his family- that anyone who voted for Kenyan Muslim Obama, is an unpatriotic idiot- knowing full well some around the table had?

My DC live abroad and I suppose I am an elderly parent never thought of it like that.
If I thought for one moment they felt like that about me I wouldn't particularly want to see them and would be ashamed that I had brought up someone who was so intolerant and self-righteous.

Nobody said just a referendum did they?

But they did mention respect for other people's points of view. Many of the problems in the world are because of an intolerance of other people's views and a feeling of self-righteousness and self-justification without any empathy for other people who may have their own hopes and fears.