The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

And the Guardian is falling apart...

In what way rose?

Seriously though folks, stop treating it as a battle, it's an exchange of views.Would you really like to have had the insults about why you chose a name for a forum questioned,
See posts saying you are a troll, a rogue, and many posts about are you a he/she ?
Mair has posted many well thought out and logical comments, the fact that you don't like them, don't agree with them etc has certainly brought out the worst in you.

No rose I haven't even started yet! I don't see this as a battle but an exchange of views. My problem is time - so frustrating.

The term rogue was not used in the perjoritive way you suggested, and I am sure the poster to whom it was directed did not take it as such. My point is that what is described as well thought out logical arguments are in fact based on so many false premises as to be without foundation. I believe that the poster knows this.

...but have you thought that the logical well thought out arguments by others on this thread are based on false premises, and so without foundation as well, or does it only work one way?You see, it's so easy to make that kind of comment, and so hard to back it up.I have no doubt that Mair will supply you with an answer to any question, to to cover all that is said by a blanket of 'false premises' is not the way to go.

ww you are also intimating that you know Mair which means that you are adding two and two and making five very likely.Be very careful about this.

I have said nothing about names, trolls or rogues, roses or made any personal remarks but it appears it is OK to have personal remarks made towards me Mair is behaving no differently to those you criticise; where he/she* doesn't agree personal remarks are seen as acceptable. You do exactly the same as I have found in the past. My remarks are about the point of argument and the way the argument it put forward not about people. I don't know them - they may be awful, they may be lovely but we are talking about a point of discussion not about people. Mair is making a strong argument for a particular viewpoint; it is not unreasonable to challenge the veracity of its premise.

Enjoy your day all of you.

*put this way out of politeness as we just don't know.

OK rose I will begin to back up my argument asap - now over Mums for the morning then walking so will give it some thought we I come back hopefully later today

No I don't know the poster, but I can glean information, as we all can from the posts.

'Not unreasonable to challenge the veracity of it's premise'......no, never unreasonable to ask for the truth. A lot of remarks from posters on here don't always show they are telling the truth, or that they are doing any more than wild guesswork,but they are never asked to prove anything!
You may or may not make personal remarks GG but you sure have a sarcastic tone .

We always want a few differing viewpoints on the news/political discussions and wonder why so few want to put theirs on.It doesn't matter WHO a person is on here, nor should we question their 'credentials'....engage in discussions, even heated ones,
But do not go down the road of banding together to try and out or oust a poster because you don't like their viewpoint.

mair how concerned are you that Malthusian theory has been widely used to support facist (sic)theory?
Not in the least concerned about an "association fallacy" WW.
Why should I be? Stalin was an atheist. Does that make atheism dangerous? Hitler was both an environmentalist and a vegetarian.

BTW WW I find it quite ignorant that you suggest I provide no evidence to support my arguments when I have in fact provided quite a number of useful links on this and other threads (proving my claims about TB being a BME issue for example) . What I am not going to do is be bullied into wasting my time attempting to prove what is not absolutely provable however, such as that the majority want to see immigration brought under control.

It is an acknowledged tactic of the pro mass immigration minority to make endless unreasonable demands for 'evidence'as a distraction from the paucity of their own arguments.

Incidentally to those who have suggested otherwise I am a woman, as my user name clearly suggests. I find it difficult to understand why aggressive, usually left wing, usually open borders women , who one would reasonably expect to believe in female equality, seem to believe that women who vigorously oppose them must be men! Strange indeed, especially post Thatcher.

But do not go down the road of banding together to try and out or oust a poster because you don't like their viewpoint.

The hard left, often it seems particularly women, always aim to get anyone who challenges their opinions banned. This is why left wing boards are populated only by clone thinkers.

The Brexit result has made them particularly furious, remember that disgusting tweet by someone expressing the hope that if we had a second referendum then some of the elderly who voted Brexit would have died?

No-one is trying to get you banned, Mair.

Or 'ousted' roses

You can only speak for yourself of course, MaizieD.

Exactly, you can't speak for anyone else.In any case, they are more likely to get themselves banned if the aggressive tactics continue.
Get back to real issues ,people.

Why, Ana. Are you trying to do either of those things?

they are more likely to get themselves banned

As a matter of interest, just who are 'they'?

if the aggressive tactics continue.

Oh. And I just thought it was a bit of robust debate, full of mild language such as 'giving someone a kicking'.

That was giving a kicking in the elections, as you well know Maizie
'They' are anybody on here who has accused a poster of being a troll/ not who they claim they are etc.
Robust discussion yes, the other things no.If in doubt consult the guidelines.
NOW can we get back to real issues and cut all the bitching?

Or possibly leave it until something more is actually happening re Brexit.

That was giving a kicking in the elections, as you well know Maizie

I'm just astounded that anyone finds such language acceptable under any circumstances.

Why, Ana. Are you trying to do either of those things?

Exactly the response I was expecting from you, MaizieD!

Then you must have led a very sheltered life........ astounded ? Have you ever read anything on other forums?

Maizie D is

just astounded that anyone finds such language (get a kicking) acceptable under any circumstances.

Tim Farron is fortunately not so delicate!
Hope Maizie will not be voting LibDem

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/byelection/8360984/Barnsley-Central-by-election-Lib-Dems-admit-they-got-a-kicking.html

Tim Farron, the Lib Dem president and MP for Westmorland and Lonsdale, said: "It was a poor result for us. It was a poor result for the Tories. The Coalition parties didn't do very well here. Surprise, surprise.
"At this time of the evening, there's nothing more laughable than a politician who's got a kicking pretending it's all right."

I somehow suspect that if we Brexit voters had got a kicking Maisie would be cheering on anyone who said so.

Thanks for that Mair I love it when posters bring up info like that

Oh Mair of course the ability of the LA to plan ahead is germane. It has been thus for years. Blaming immigration for Gove's bone-headed policies is nonsense.
EU immigrants, as you know. tend to be younger and healthier than UK and put less pressure on the NHS than a UK born citizen. As any GP will tell you most of their patients are children and retired people.
TB is a complex disease and I don't think anyone ever proved that spitting was a cause of transmission. It is not that easy to catch or transmit. I was aware of a case in a secondary school - only the family and the children who were in the same class most of the time were screened. Teachers and other kids in the school not considered at risk.
Epidemic is an emotive and incorrect term to use. Currently there is a decline it seems.
www.tbalert.org/about-tb/statistics-a-targets/uk-stats-and-targe
ts/
The BCG vaccine was discontinued because it is not highly effective. www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/bcg-tuberculosis-TB-vaccine.aspx
This thread is about leaving the EU and it is wandering a long way off the point to drag TB into your argument. It's not EU immigrants that have an increased rate of TB is it. if you Leavers get your wish and leave the EU you will almost certainly get more people coming here from third world as explained in my post.
I clearly recall several pro-leave GN members before the referendum complaining that the current rules were not fair to commonwealth citizens. Time to join the dots between billionaires, the press, funding UKIP and Leave campaign, the desire to to admit cheap third world labour instead of EU labour.
Maybe some of you missed Priti Patel's speech during the campaign in which she made this explcit ?
So bored with the "hard left" jibe on GN. I have never in all these years come across anyone remotely hard left on GN.