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Berlin

(236 Posts)
Ankers Tue 20-Dec-16 18:23:13

So...if they're all so dangerous, why haven't we had hundreds of people mown down by lorries?

They are vetted?

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 18:22:43

I'm not blaming Angela Merkel personally daphnedill. Her own background - coming form East Germany - meant that all she ever strived for was effective immigration and integration. I can see what she wanted to achieve, but the sheer number of people coming into the country was crazy and the repercussions were not well thought through.

TerriBull Tue 20-Dec-16 18:17:44

I like to think I'm aware. After the terrible Bataclan massacre it's put me off going to the theatre in London, my husband tells me I'm over reacting, but I see a potential threat everywhere and I certainly worry about my children who work up in London, as I did during the worst of the IRA campaign. Possibly that contributes to my paranoia. I think it's possible our intelligence is better than mainland Europe, Belguim and France's seem somewhat woeful in that respect and even Germany's is clearly lacking and given their open door policy I think they owe their public an increased security service. They still haven't lived down the mass sexual assaults on the women of Cologne last New Year. I think the UK averts more potential terror threats than the rest of Europe put together, but then we have had more experience of having to deal with this sort of thing for the past 40 or so years. However, we can't be complacent. Quite honestly most young men who commute and work in London have a rucksack/backpack with their bits and pieces in them, my kids do. I can't help notice on previous trips up to town rucksacks are placed in luggage racks, how can anyone go up and down the carriage enquiring of every passenger "Is that your baggage up there?"

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 18:15:06

Vigilance is important, but I can't be spending every moment watching out for every escape route and eyeing up every person.
I must admit I have enormous faith in the UK intelligence service, although it's no good being too complacent. I've been more than happy in the past week or two to evacuate Oxford Street station in an emergency, stand outside Canary Wharf in the cold, have my bags searched at the theatre etc. We are on high alert, but it shouldn't stop us going places and enjoying ourselves.
So sad what happened in Germany. They don't have as much experience of terrorists as the UK and France, but I hope they deal with it in a firm manner. Zero tolerance.

durhamjen Tue 20-Dec-16 18:09:22

Police have released the man because of lack of evidence.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/20/refugees-plead-germans-christmas-market-attack

daphnedill Tue 20-Dec-16 18:08:14

I wondered how long it would take for people to blame Merkel. Let's not forget that the alleged perpetrator is from Pakistan - not the Middle East or North Africa.

According to the ONS, there are just over half a million people in the UK, who were born in Pakistan. That doesn't include people born in the UK of Pakistani heritage.

There are far more people of Pakistani heritage in the UK than there are in Germany and they still account for a high percentage of non-EU immigrants.

So...if they're all so dangerous, why haven't we had hundreds of people mown down by lorries? The answer is, of course, that the vast majority aren't dangerous, but that logic seems to escape people. The UK still accepts more Pakistanis than Germany does and we have always had the power to refuse all of them.

I would imagine Merkel does indeed have a few nightmares and regrets. However, I wonder what those people who criticise her would have done. Would they have left these people on the beaches of Italy and Greece?

KatyK Tue 20-Dec-16 17:45:07

There was a security expert on TV today. She said, as merlot says above, we must be very vigilant indeed. She said wherever she goes she always looks for the nearest escape route, keeps here eyes and ears open. Someone said that was sad, but she said it's common sense. I find people are not vigilant. I have posted on here before about people leaving unattended bags and no one batting an eyelid. Only last weekend we were out for lunch and there was a large holdall underneath a table where no one was sitting. I was just aboout to tell a member of staff, when a chap came back in for it. He had been outside for a cigarette. It is totally irresponsible. Apart from my DH and me, no one seemed to notice. People are not vigilant.

merlotgran Tue 20-Dec-16 17:27:42

Mowing people down with a lorry - a weapon of mass destruction. More appealing than blowing yourself up and there's a chance you'll escape.

I agree with the man on the Jeremy Vine show this morning who said people must now put away their phones/tablets and stop wearing earphones.

We need to be very, very vigilant.

Christinefrance Tue 20-Dec-16 17:17:29

So tragic, a repeat of the incident in Nice, the death toll is mounting I hear. Seems like the lorry was hijacked by a terrorist, Angela Merkel must be regretting her generosity as Lillie said.

Lillie Tue 20-Dec-16 11:48:10

It seems like Angela Merkel's generosity has backfired.

Jalima Tue 20-Dec-16 11:30:00

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/20/berlin-market-attack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crash-christmas-market-live

Evil in the midst of joy.
I am shocked, saddened and sickened.