Berlin

I agree with Mair that the BBC is not always unbiased.

There is I think an inclination on the part of some influential BBC staff to see politics as a branch of entertainment and so will encourage outrageous views to stir up controversary.

The BBC practically created the monster that is Nigel Farage who has in recent years appeared 31 times on Question Time, making him the eleventh most frequent political guest. Those in the top ten (such as Kenneth Clark, Menzies Campbell and Harriet Harman) have an average of over thirty years service in parliament. Farage has failed to get elected seven times. No other MEP has ever been given so many chances to air his views.

Perhaps it was not just the bias of the right wing press that swung the EU vote.

A long, but interesting insight into the manufacture of hatred in the global media. The second half of the article relates how hatred was created in various media outlets.

www.newsdeeply.com/refugees/articles/2016/12/14/the-manufacture-of-hatred-scapegoating-refugees-in-central-europe

Here's a blog from a 'horse's mouth'.

www.edlumino.org/blog/rf

Dr Rory Fox was the deputy headteacher of a school where I once worked. He went on to be dubbed the "strictest headteacher in England" - by the Daily Mail(!), which I guess is some kind of accolade. 'Gullible' is the last word I would use to describe him. He now runs a charity teaching migrant children and is currently working in Greece.

I'd rather believe his testimony than somebody who's never been anywhere near a migrant school.

she hears people talking and sees newspaper reports about the denial of the Holocaust; how the 'dead' were really American actors and it was just lies and propaganda.
It may be fiction, based on fact and research, but that bit is true
And there are still Holocaust deniers around today.

But it is interesting because I have just read a book by Rachel Seiffert about a 12 year old child who manages to travel with her young siblings (one a baby) in 1945 from Bavaria to Hamburg to find her Oma after her Nazi parents are arrested.

Yes but that is fiction (although simply to another city in her own country , considerably more realistic than the concept of young primary school aged children crossing continents, and allegedly resolutely determined to join "relatives" in Britain who clearly dont even care enough to jump on the ferry and go to help them). It's really such a load of horseshit.

I am amazed too that the 'charity workers' seem to think migrants are incapable of telling lies! You do not even need to be an inveterate liar to realise it worth spinning a yarn to a gullible charity worker if it is going to win you a place in Europe, or the Golden Ticket of a place in Britain.

I have just skimmed it for tonight.

But it is interesting because I have just read a book by Rachel Seiffert about a 12 year old child who manages to travel with her young siblings (one a baby) in 1945 from Bavaria to Hamburg to find her Oma after her Nazi parents are arrested.
The point is that she hears people talking and sees newspaper reports about the denial of the Holocaust; how the 'dead' were really American actors and it was just lies and propaganda.

Anyone who has an opinion on anything at all can send their views around the world in a flash these days, whether true or not.
Even us.

Can I be your chum and share it with you, daphne?

Grumppa, the Guardian doesn't have proprietors, does it? The editor is totally independent of bias from above - although obviously not own bias, which we all have.

Wayhay, Mair. I've rarely won anything in my life, so I'm honoured.

Thanks, Jalima. You might read something interesting.

I will take a look tomorrow now permission is granted!

Too late now
I will ask DH, he watches Aljazeera. I do sometimes as I like the weather forecaster on there, he used to be our local one and I miss him.
I watched The Orkneys - very nice and interesting to fall asleep in front of.

I presume you have looked at it, Jalima.
If not, why not?
You don't normally take notice of what I say.

1 No, I haven't
2 You didn't address it to me
3 What makes you say that, I always do take notice!
(that's why I didn't look at it!)

When I was at school (many moons ago) there was a huge emphasis on preparing us for our future lives. Unusually, we had 8 periods a week in the Sixth Form for General Studies. We were advised to read two newspapers every day - the Guardian and the Times. The idea was that we could read about the same news items from two different views. Sadly, the Times is now behind a paywall and is not the serious newspaper it once was. We were also trained to summarise and to question sources, although checking them wasn't easy in tose pre-internet days. I don't think I've ever lost those skills.

I believe in plain speaking, Mair.

So you won't mind if I award you the Grumpy Old Bird 2016 then?


Share it with your chum Durham if you like!

I think Rachel Shabi's piece was very good, dj. I didn't necessarily agree with every point she made, but she was saying most of the right things, and her overall point was a good one.

All reporting and editorialising contains some bias, because it is written by human beings; the important thing is to know where those humans and their equally human - though it's sometimes hard to believe - employers/proprietors are coming from, so that we can to a degree discount the views in the Guardian, the DT, etc. and indeed the BBC.

What we should be able to trust is the reporting of facts by the media, but it is becoming increasingly difficult with some of them.

No, Jalima, I didn't. Some people don't deserve it.

I'm not sure what you mean about making remarks about the messenger. I read Al Jazeera regularly, because it has some very good journalists and offers perspectives not often available in the British press. I like Rachel Shabi. She's an Iraqi Jew, who was brought up in the UK, so has some interesting and thought-provoking views on the Middle East. I also read Haaretz, because it's a left-wing Israeli newspaper, which openly criticises the current Israeli government without being anti-semitic.

However, the link isn't about the Middle East.

Shabi is right. The media has changed beyond recognition over the last few years as a result of the internet. I think we should all be very aware about news sources. As you know, I do challenge stories if the sources don't seem credible. I'm also aware that propagandists use fake pictures and stories, which can go round the world in seconds. Everybody can be a publisher these days and nobody really seems to care whether stories are fake, if they support their particular viewpoint. I'm also very concerned by Twitter bullying and blatant trolling, even on sites such as GN.

I once toyed with the idea of becoming a journalist and started my working life at Express Newspapers (shock horror) and Reuters. The whole scene has changed beyond recognition since those days. Even at Express Newspapers, we wouldn't have published a story which hadn't been checked. Even the opinion articles were quite clearly opinions rather than pretending to be facts. Reuters was totally different. We published facts as impartially as possible, which were then sold to other outlets. It was up to them what they did with our facts.

These days anybody can post any old garbage on the internet and it's often difficult to attribute sources. Unfortunately, many numbskulls can't tell the difference. I seriously think Media Studies and an analysis of news reporting should be in every school's curriculum, if young people are going to be taught how to play a full part in any democracy.

I believe in plain speaking, Mair.

It might be a 'given' in the Daily Express, but it's not true and doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

'decent enough'?

I presume you have looked at it, Jalima.
If not, why not?
You don't normally take notice of what I say.
Daphne is decent enough to look at links, unlike some on here - not necessarily meaning you.
The link is also about the media, which daphne is interested in. I would hope she lets me know if she agrees with the message, rather than just making remarks about the messenger.

is anyone allowed to look at the link please or is it just for daphne?

Why don't you just admit you know sod all about the BBC's recruitment policies or practices?
[gasp]

Did no-one on here make any NY resolutions about kindness and politeness?

This is interesting, daphne.

www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/12/media-2017-161230144352351.html

Carry on posting Mair totally on your wavelength.

I thought it was a given that the BBC has a left of centre agenda.