Wheelchairs versus buggies court ruling

Oh, and also, I wouldn't have thought it was any good the driver ringing the police. If the law doesn't categorically state that wheelchair users have priority to the space then the mum won't have broken the law and I'm assuming all the police can do is ask her nicely to shift. By the way, isn't it funny we only talk of young mums, don't young dad's ever use the bus?

We should be careful not to spin this into the ridiculous - this case was caused by a selfish woman who didn't want to disturb her sleeping baby. Tough. Of course the law needs changing but in the meantime, drivers can be trained, notices can be put up in buses and at bus stops and people men or women.who refuse to move can be shamed by the rest of us. And buy a foldable buggy and not a status symbol.

And of course we can't predict when a wheelchair user might want to use a bus - we can't predict use of disabled toilets either but we still provide them. Bus companies already have rules that drivers have to enforce like paying your fare, not drinking alcohol - this is just another one

It is unfortunate that this came to court. Both those in wheelchairs and parents with buggies need proper consideration. What a pity it could not have been settled with common sense.

Last time I travelled by bus a lady was sitting in the seat for those with "impaired mobility" - it is the one near the door - and she had a buggy in the wheelchair space. I did not get into an argument with her but went on up the bus to a somewhat difficult seat. The bottom line is that it is hard to cater from everyone as no-one knows who is going to get on the bus.

Lucky but they do not need equal consideration. Chelsea tractor buggies and other non foldable buggies can only get on buses today because disabled people fought long and hard to make buses accessible for wheel chairs.The threads on MN on this topic are full of examples of wonderful mothers who, knowing they would be using buses, bought foldable, suitable buggies for their babies. They do not consider that they deserve the same rights as wheelchair users for those spaces but should plan to be able to manage without stealing the rights of wheelchair users.

The disabled person had no choice but to use a wheelchair, the mothers with these enormous pushchairs for have a choice. Don't have such enormous buggies if you travel by bus, get a smaller one,they are threatening as the person pushing them usually just barges through, they take up all the space when you are on a bus or eating out, they just get in the way and are just not necessary, I think they should have yo pay fir them when on a bus. Is the disabled person ejected from a bus, yo sut giro ethos another hou in the hope he will be able to get on the next bus. I think bigger buggies are becoming a status symbol for some of these young mothers. No I don't dislike babies, quite the opposite, but the thought of do someone disabled not bring able to get out and about is upsetting.

Pleased to read that about MN Rigby.

I agree with most people about this, very difficult for the driver in this situation. Buses should allow folding buggies only, why can't the owners of the big buggies have a smaller folding buggy for use on the bus.
I remember the tansad pushchairs, I had a cumfifolda one which folded easily and was cheap. My husband had some overtime money and bought a Silver Cross one but it was so heavy I couldn't manage it on the bus so back to the cheap one.
There does seem to be a lack of care and compassion with some people now. ( of all ages )

I remember a similar thread to this a while back and I said that I had lost count how many times my poor mum and dad had been left standing at the bus stop when a mother(s) refused to fold their buggies up . There was only one bus to/from town and a very long wait for the next one . The drivers were powerless and it was all down to common courtesy which sadly some people do not have . This new ruling is a step in the right direction .

I agree that we cannot leave it to common courtesy ( not so common!) especially on buses and trains.If you travel by bus a lot, or even now and then with a baby, buy a cheaper foldable buggy, simples.Meanwhile it needs to become law that a wheelchair user has the absolute right to that space.

It does sound sensible to only allow folding buggies on buses. I cannot understand why you would buy a great big one anyway, regardless of buses.

It's a status symbol like a Chelsea tractor luckygirl. Bernie Ecclestone's daughter has apparently got about six of those buggies one is studded with crystals. Epitome of good taste !!

We need bus conductors back !!! Help with buggies and information and just a hand when needed with shopping or getting on and off....all those jobs that made life easier have been wiped out.

I welcome the electronic bus stops which do indicate when the next bus is due and any problems so at least you can make decisions about whether to wait or not.

The first McLaren buggies have never been bettered, mine lasted ages despite constant abuse but mums now have more than one monster thing per child..........like people who use huge cars for the school run, inconsiderate about pace and how to share it.

Slightly off subject but why is modern baby equipment so complicated. I had a maclaren too which you could collapse using one foot. Had to ring my daughter to tell me how to get my grandson out of his buggy. Then on another occasion it took me 10 mins to do up his car seat. And they have so much paraphernalia now. How did we ever manage?

Many buses are mostly empty during the day so why cannot the seats be adapted to provide more that fold up? Having travelled with grandkiddies in a buggy and small pram and struggled sometimes to get the darn things to fold (have you tried holding onto a baby, bag, handbag etc and trying to collapse a buggy??) I would not be at all in favour of people being made to get off a bus because of poor planning in the design. My daughter sometimes uses a wheelchair as she has mobility problems but her one does fold up (much more easily than a buggy does) so some (I know not all) wheelchair users could do the same. A bit of tolerance both ways is needed plus a concerted effort to get bus companies to adapt seats to free up more space.

I think, if anything, this case has highlighted the need for clarity. I'd like to see conductors back too, but it isn't going to happen. I like the idea of having some sort of electronic system whereby a potential passenger can be advised in advance of the type of seats that are available on a bus in advance of that bus arriving. Or a system where a person can, say, text the depot to find out.

And, although the scenarios I suggested somewhere upthread are indeed somewhat unrealistic it is a situation like these which sparked off the wheelchair user's successful case in the first place.

And as to drivers taking responsibility for breaches of the wheelchair space code - no, just no. They're not paid to do that. The law needs to be properly in place, and enforceable. At the moment it's too much of a fudge.

IMO the allocated Wheelchair space should have a barred access to be opened by the Driver when required so these mothers who can't read or are just selfish can't use them!

I don't think modern buggies are difficult to collapse in general. I bought an all-terrain, 3-wheeler and that collapsed beautifully. No, it's all the huge bags containing an entire baby kit, bottles, biscuits, nappies, wipes, change of clothes, etc that are invariably slung over the handles that make them unwieldy.

I have a solution - a wheelchair space with a lockable barrier. Then the driver can open it for a wheelchair user to access and refuse to do the same for a buggy. Job done!

My mums wheelchair folded up too DotMH1901 but unfortunately she could not stand up and get out of it and anyway she was a bit too big to sit on my dads knee. I have juggled babies, buggies and bags over the years and always managed. Can't see the problem in having a sign that reads ONLY FOLDING PUSHCHAIRS ALLOWED ON BOARD. Problem solved.

What about mothers with twins? Do you remember how difficult it was folding a buggy whilst holding a small child at the roadside? Plus you ALWAYS had a bag whether or not you had been shopping. It was a nightmare but London Transport conductors were great - I also knew a driver who was on my home run some days - he was in the year below me at school - if he saw me he shouted out of the window,leaped out of the cab and did all the folding etc - then reversed the actions where I was getting off!
My DIL has twins. This causes a lot if problems - if you want a pushchair/pram of any sort your choice is limited. She decided to buy one where the babies were one behind the other as it was narrower and was far easier in shop doorways etc. We had the choice of TWO of this style - both were sturdy out of necessity. It would be impossible to dismantle this on a bus and lift it on let alone carry the babies/toddlers.
The buses need more space to accommodate both pushchairs and/ or wheelchairs. The ones in South Wales often have enough room for two or three pushchairs or wheelchairs to fit on depending on the sizes. They have fold down seats when not needed for the chairs. The bus stops have raised kerbs too so it is rare that the ramps need to be employed. I have seen people in wheelchairs holding onto buggies for the mothers and all sorts - people tend to be patient and assist each other - the young mothers are very adept at manoeuvring the pushchairs into awkward spaces.

Gettingonabit surely it only applies if a disabled person in a wheelchair gets on to the bus. I would imaging babies in buggies would be allowed to use the space if there were no disabled passengers.

Brilliant idea Nanasam suggest this to your MP.

I think the judgement was right although I have great sympathy with women who have to manage buggies, babies, toddlers and shopping. Hopefully, they will gain assistance from other passengers but I don't suppose they can count on that these days.

I had a red and white stripe McLaren buggy so easy to use and take everywhere, bought something that looked similar when I looked after small grandson but not as good bring them back. What are the bus Drivers supposed to do if mother refuses to move surely we are no further forward or will the mums get taken to Court, I can just see the headlines.