Wheelchairs versus buggies court ruling

Interesting that the mother with the buggy seems to be staying under the radar (probably wisely). In bad weather if there was no bus shelter a wheelchair user left at a bus stop would be much worse off than a child in a buggy with raincovers.

Pushchair should be folded down before getting on the bus it would certainly make parents think twice about the size and complexity of some of pushchairs they buy wheelchair users should have priority as they don't have any alternative

Just seen a disabled lady couldn't get on a bus outside the Court where the case took place as a mother refused to move her buggy.

If someone with a buggy refuses to move, maybe the driver will do what happened on my bus once, when a young mum with a buggy was screamimg obscenities and abusing him. (Nothing to do with wheelchair space though).
He simply refused to move until she got off, and when she wouldn't, he called the police, who arrived pretty fast.
Having had to listen to her screaming effing and blinding for several minutes, I was only too happy to corroborate what the driver told them.

Wow, some of you really seem to have forgotten how difficult it is to travel on a bus with a small baby in a buggy, and are really 'sticking it' to today's mum's !

I think it would help if more space on each bus was allocated to wheelchairs and buggies as we have seen in Denmark and other Countries. I would not want parents with young children to be asked to get off a bus they had got on at an earlier stop.They could be left in the dark or with another child not being collected from school,

I would also like to add an extra line to any new regulations that are brought into force. Not only should buggies be moved or folded but trollies should not block access either.

I sometimes used to carry my baby in a sling. No buggy required! Otherwise I had one of the umbrella fold buggies, as many others here seem to have done.

If it was a choice between my grandchild and my friend's husband with Parkinson's, I know who I'd give the space to and it wouldn't be my grandchild.

This really does seem to be a them and us situation. Surely it is a matter of common decency and common sense. If a pushchair is in the space and a wheelchair is trying to get on is there somewhere for the parent to move to. If not is the mum going somewhere urgent or just perhaps shopping. Likewise with the wheelchair user. I'm sure if a parent is trying to get to a hospital appointment the wheelchair user would be happy to wait if they were not in a rush and, visa versa.
I do know that in this particular case the wheelchair user was meeting his parents for lunch. Was the parent going somewhere urgently or was she going for a stroll round primark. Was there a space for her to move her pram into. I am aware that the court ruling stated that there will be circumstances where it will be reasonable for a passenger to refuse to vacate the wheelchair slot and that there needs to be a balance between the needs of wheelchair users and other vulnerable passengers, including parents with babies in prams/buggies.
I think that means could we all be a bit more compassionate to all our fellow passengers

I am registered disabled and walk with a stick, with the prospect of being in a wheelchair in the future as problems with my spine continue. So I am glad of this decision. BUT....I also have a two year old granddaughter who I look after 3 days a week. I don't have a car so I have to go places by bus. She travels in her pushchair, not a huge one but not one you can fold up like an umbrella- I need it sturdy as sometimes I lean on the handle for support. And it's useful to have the basket underneath as I cannot carry the bags and that's where I put my fold up walking stick. It wouldn't be possible for me to take her out to fold it up, I couldn't carry the bags and/or her as I would need my stick in one hand. And she couldn't sit on my lap as its too painful, it's bad enough trying to get the pushchair onto the bus in the first place! And then I feel guilty if someone older or someone who looks less able than me gets on and I don't /can't offer them my seat. If I didn't sit down I might fall down when the bus lurches. Now I will have to worry about this as well when I get on a bus. Final word tho is that I do get annoyed when mummies put their empty pushchairs in the space, with the child on a seat next to them and then other mums can't get on with their pushchairs! There seems no fair solution. How I envy the people who can go places in their cars.

Kitty I dont know of course why you look after your dgc 3 days a week but wouldn't it be possible to have an easily foldable buggy for her that is sturdy enough for you. Do you really think that you should be able to have priority over a wheelchsir user who has no other choices? There's a difference between taking a seat and using a wheelchair. space.

My daughter has a little one in a buggy and is having a second baby soon. She also suffers from a very bad back condition and would find it impossible to lift little one and shopping and fold a pram up to carry on bus, so what's she supposed to do??

She's made a choice about having children - a wheelchair user hasn't made a choice about being a wheelchair user. That sounds harsh but it won't be forever - unlike the wheelchair user. Taxis, online shopping, help from you....??

If I recall correctly the space was originally created specifically for disabled users. It then rapidly became a repository for buggies, trolleys, suitcases et al. BUT..... it was originally for the disabled. They have priority. It should IMHO be enforced by whatever means. I have seen mothers with children abusing passengers for standing too near their buggies in that space when the bus was crowded. How precious is that! I have seen disabled people left in the pouring rain because there were too many buggies. How selfish is that! I have seen at least three buggies unfolded on a busy bus, blocking people's access. How unsafe is that! Bus catches fire - who gets off first or do we all perish together? I thought H&S rules specified a certain number of buggies - two - unless space needed for wheelchair. It's a no brainer for me. Wheelchairs users win the day.

Could I ask Rigby, do you agree with the Supreme Court ruling that there will be circumstances where it is reasonable for a passenger to refuse to vacate the wheelchair slot and that there needs to be a balance between the needs of wheelchair users and other vulnerable passengers including parents with babies in prams/buggies?

That is an interesting dilemma Grannyben but I would still maintain that, unless the person refusing to vacate the space is more disabled that the disabled passenger wishing to use the space, the disabled passenger should have priority. When I taught RE I had a video which showed the problems of the disabled getting around and getting accepted. It reversed the bus situation. Suppose all buses were geared to the disabled and you, the able bodied, only got on with the sufferance of the disabled. How would you feel? Same in restaurants. Suppose the disabled got all the best seats and the able bodied was shown to the squashed table by the men's toilets. How would you feel? Treated like a full human being? Or just tolerated? It was very interesting to see how many of the pupils I taught actually got the point and supported the disabled. I hope that some 16 years on they would fold their buggies.

Rigby46, it is rather harsh, yes she chose in very difficult circumstances physically and medically to have children in her late 30s and at great cost, taxis far too expensive, online shopping she does but you can't get everything that way,a nd as for me helping,well you see I'm disabled and have at times had to use a wheelchair. There is always 2 ways to look a these things you know.

I couldn't agree more Divorgilla and, I have explained in my previous posts that I would always put my grandsons pushchair down, not just for wheelchair users and, that this issue should really be dealt with by common sense , common decency and a little bit of compassion for other people

And yes, Chris, I agree the statement was rather harsh. No-one knows another person's circumstances and a little bit of understanding works both ways

My statement was harsh - I said that. But it was true - she did make a choice and choices have consequences and as grown ups, we have to think those through. If we decide that problems resulting from our choices in th short term are worth it, that's fine, but we can't expect others to necessarily to pay the price of the choices we make such as a wheelchair user being denied their designated space on the bus. If you have to use a wheelchair sometimes, imagine what it's like to use a wheelchair all the tome and have no choices.

Surely parents who want to use public transport have a choice whether to have a folding buggy or not which a disabled person doesn't have. The disabled campaigned for those spaces, mothers did not. Life is hard enough for the disabled without entitled mothers refusing to co-operate. Of course it is nicer if the disabled are polite, I certainly would be if I needed to use one of the spaces and a buggy needed to be moved, but if you are disabled you are probably fed up with having to tackle people on a daily basis along with plenty of other things they endure. Maybe life is tough enough, travel is exhausting and they don't have a lot of energy left for being cheerful when somebody vacates the space they are entitled to. I am horrified by some of the things people say about the disabled. One mother I heard berating a disabled person who, rather reasonably wanted to park in the blue badge space she was parked in with her small child, was screaming about how unreasonable it was that she had to walk further to the supermarket if she moved into an ordinary parking space. I wanted to tell her that she was lucky she could walk at all which wasn't the good fortune the disabled driver had.

That is a good result. Wheelchair have far less options available to get where they want to than mothers with buggies.

Ah the original Maclaren walking stick buggies were wonderfully convenient. Not like these awful big things.

I agree with most of what has been said, but I do not think all scenarios have been thought through. If a parent/carer with a child in a buggy has purchased a ticket and occupied the space, surely that is a contract?
So if at the next stop someone in a wheelchair wants to board, does this law mean the pushchair user has to get off? What if it is rural or semi rural route and the bus runs only every hour less frequent or it's the last one, or the bus stop where they got on had a pavement n shelter as it was in the town/village whereas the next one has neither?
Perhaps I am misunderstanding this judgement.

no BillieW it would mean that the buggy would need to be folded in order to let the wheelchair on. Can you imagine being left at the kerbside in a wheelchair for an hour just because some selfish person thought that folding their buggy was a terrible inconvenience. A simple sign stating that all puschairs must be folded would solve the problem.

When my children were small you had no choice but to fold the buggy. There was no way to get on the bus otherwise. Can't see the problem really.