Government must have vote on Brexit

Compromise, rose all is compromise!

Vigorous debate will and should happen by our parliamentary representatives, but the politics of division, and the language of division which has so unhappily been present in our country over the past few years must be rejected.

Right at the beginning someone on GN posted The Road to Brexit by Alan Renwick from UCL.
All the rules and agreements on how to leave are stated. As far as I can see nothing has changed. The EU does not spend any time trying to find ways to help or hinder the UK. We have other problems. Its all in that link The road to Brexit.

Theresa May was an embarressment when she was over last week. But the Oldies in the EU are still such gentlemen that she was made to feel welcome. Not so the reporters and the cartoonists. They had field day.

Listening to the commentaries outside the Suprmeme Court it seems that the EU migrants living in the EU shall not lose their identity and of course other EU rights which need to be protected.

The Supreme Court deliberately made no comment on how Brexit should be conducted. There is still absolutely no guarantees about EU migrants in the UK. Anything which has been claimed is speculation.

Yes, Margaret, I've been looking at some of the cartoons. Along with Boris, the impression seems to be that we're all clowns.

The EU certainly does have other problems Margaret !
Who are 'oldies' [
I think we can live with a few silly cartoons.

Yes ww there will be compromises along the way ( and that guarantees some will be miffed.)

Been playing around with some figures...

46,499,532 people were eligible to vote in the referendum (excluding people living abroad).

Just over a million and a half babies were born in the UK between June 1994 and December 1996. They are currently 16-18 and all will be at least 18 by the time the UK leaves the EU.

The death rate for 2015 was 529,655 and there's no reason to think that will change much. That means that approximately a quarter of a million people who voted in the referendum have already died and by the time the UK leaves, an additional million or more will have died.

So by March 2019 over 2% of the electorate will not have had an opportunity to vote and 2% won't be here any more. The winning margin was less that 4%. Hmmm...

I can't imagine who in the UK would give a fig what EU reporters and cartoonists think about T May and the UK. We have our own opinion of those 'Oldies'...

dd, but the voting public becomes more right leaning as it gets olders.
So those of say, guessing 42-44 years of age, some change and start voting right wing instead of missle or left iyswim

Also nothing and nobody stays still in life. Things change.

but the politics of division, and the language of division which has so unhappily been present in our country over the past few years must be rejected.

You cant change the world.

You cant even manage to change opinions of a few gransnetters on here!

I meant to leave the thread.

I must before I blow a gasket!

Really <goes away shaking head>

Wow! Theresa May insisted at Davos that the UK wants to remain “the best friend” to European partners.

Good luck with that, Theresa! It seems that your subjects aren't so keen on being friends.

DD
Hope your not wishing for the death of Brexit voters? Sounds like it.

So by March 2019 over 2% of the electorate will not have had an opportunity to vote and 2% won't be here any more. The winning margin was less that 4%. Hmmm...

Remember more over 65s voted Remain than under 25s.
You possibly were among them.

Ankers, I don't think you've understood. All I was pointing out is that the electorate won't be the same people in 2019. Today's 16-18 year olds are more pro-Europe than oldies. A referendum in 2019 with different voters might produce a different result. Who knows?

Blown gaskets can cause serious problems, but are rarely caused by facts.

Mair There are more over 65s in the country than there are 18-25s, so that's a meaningless statistic.

I'm not wishing the death of Brexit voters - that's just a fact of life (about the only certainty).

PS. I'm not over 65.

Can't be bothered to work the numbers out exactly, but there are approximately 5.7 million 18-25 year olds and over 11.6 million over 65s, including over half a million over 90s.

But not all of us voted for Brexit- even my mother who is 94 voted to Remain.
If TM wants to stay 'best friends' with the EU she needs to keep quiet for a bit and start listening.
And I haven't changed my opinion I think leaving the EU will be a disaster especially in the areas of the arts and cultural development which benefitted massively from EU money and which are regarded by this government as dispensable and not even necessary as school subjects.
But if anyone can reassure me I will listen.

My mum 98 voted remain. The really ancients can remember the war and the result of a divided Europe.

trisher I wasn't being entirely serious - just musing. It certainly wasn't serious enough to cause gasket blowing.

Seriously, though, in two years time 'events' will have happened and we will hopefully know the outcome of negotiations. The demographic profile of the population will have changed slightly and current 16-18 year olds are more pro-Europe.

Even if there isn't another referendum, ignoring the wishes/needs of a growing sector of the population would be a mistake. They're already pi$$ed off at the prospect at having to work until they drop dead and supporting an ever ageing population.

Errmmm...I'm not sure Theresa May does listening - or, to be more accurate, she probably does listening and regurgitating her advisors' speeches, but she's not good at 'doing'.

The other issue with the younger was that they didn't turn out last time and moaned like mad at us oldies. So next time let's hope they've learned their lesson and turn out to have their democrTic say.

My 85 year old mother voted Remain too (surprisingly). When I asked her why, she said the same as your mum, ww. She was 8 when war broke out and said she's so grateful that we've had 70 years of peace, because she didn't think we would when she was a child/teenager. She even (grudgingly) admits she likes the European places she's visited and some foreign food isn't bad. I think what swung it, though, was the Polish couple who live next door. The hubby takes out her bins and the wife does little errands for her. She now realises that these foreigners are actually human.

ww one of the reasons for the number of young people who didn't vote was the change in the method of registering. In the past university students in uni accommodation could all be registered by the university, now they have to do it themselves. As many move about, others didn't know and some simply forgot, the numbers registered to vote dropped as did the number who voted.

trisher I wasn't being entirely serious - just musing

In a way that suggested a very offensive wishing for the deaths of those who disagree with you. A post which was at best vulgar, at worst hate speech.

Similar 'musing' by a tiny number of equally insensitive Brexit supporters about the death of the Labour MP Jo Cox would certainly have triggered 'gasket blowing' by you!!

Time will tell on that one, ww. My son is 19 and was old enough to vote, but some of his friends in the same year at school were too young and they were furious.

If nothing else, I think Momentum has politicised some of the younger generation. Unfortunately, like many of us, they don't feel that there's a party to represent them, so it's probably not surprising they don't tend to vote.

If you've invented the elixir of eternal life, Mair, pray tell!

In the past university students in uni accommodation could all be registered by the university, now they have to do it themselves. As many move about, others didn't know and some simply forgot, the numbers registered to vote dropped as did the number who voted.

Sensibly because in the past many university students double registered both at uni and in the parental home. Its right that they have to take responsibility for it, just as everyone else does.

some of his friends in the same year at school were too young and they were furious

Hmm kids voting...
Good job they grow up eventually

Mark Twain
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”