Article 50

We don't know what deal we will get yet, until negotiations start and then it will take ages.

The problem is that, as far as the prosperity of the UK is concerned and the prospect of improving the condition of the 'left behinds' who voted leave (which I know aren't all Leave voters but which are,IMO, morally, the most important people to consider in all this) is concerned the best 'deal' is the one we have now.

As far as I can gather, from serious commentators from the Leave, Remain and Neutral positions (yes, there are some Neutral people) we would be best served by a gradual exit over a number of years in order to sort out infraastructure, trade deals, regulatory bodies etc. Something like being an EEA member. The next worse scenario is May's apparently proposed 'Hard Brexit' which would leave us with all the work to do in a rush and as the weaker partner in trade deals; and the worst case would be just leaving with nothing agreed (which is what she is threatening if you look at the 'concession' she made on Parliament having a vote on the final deal. The choice would be her deal or crash out with nothing at all.) 'Hard' brexit is forecast to be economically very damaging; not to mention all the billions we will have to pay to the EU, and crashing out would be ruinous.
This is not 'Project Fear'; this is cold hard reality and the people who will suffer the most are the people who were suffering enough last year to vote Leave in the hope that it would improve their lives.

This blog is by a guy who has been campaigning to Leave the EU just about ever since we joined it! It's a commentary on an article with the title:*Mrs May's Brexit threatens chaos at our ports*

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86375

It is a fair bet, writes Booker that few of the 52 percent of us who voted to leave the European Union imagined that what we were voting for might be bare shelves in our supermarkets, an end to the smooth arrival of the 30 percent of our food that we import from the EU (and much else), and the backing up of countless thousands of trucks as they wait, possibly for days, for customs clearance at Dover and Calais.

Yet such is the nightmare scenario being conjured up by the experts at the sharp end of all this trade, our main road haulage organisations, as they try to digest the shock of Theresa May's decision that we should drop out of both the EU's single market and the wider European Economic Area (EEA).

What they realise is that this would also, inevitably, mean the reappearance of customs controls at our borders with the EU (including Northern Ireland), as we drop out of the incredibly complex, electronically based system which ensures that the 12,000 lorry movements a day between the UK and the rest of the EU operate so smoothly that there are scarcely no delays.

The issue that so many people are failing to understand is that the moment we leave the EU we become what it calls "a third country". That is the inevitable, inescapable consequence of Brexit. It's what we leavers wanted, and it's what we're going to get. But we cannot and should not pretend that there are no consequences, and everything is going to be just as it was before.

As an EU Member State, it is all too easy, and we've forgotten what it was like before the border posts came down. Richard Burnett, chief executive of the Road Haulage Association, tells us that the trucks on which we rely currently enjoy such "seamless" access in each direction that "it's as easy to deliver from Milan to Manchester as it is from Manchester to Leeds.

"After Brexit", he adds, "that will no longer be the case". Unless we "get the process right", the system "for getting food into the country will grind to a halt". The same also applies to our exports worth billions a year, travelling in the other direction. ..... and it continues

And this is just one small aspect of the implications of leaving the EU.

Off to bed now. It's getting too depressing, Maizie.

I'm very exasperated with a friend who is constantly posting Anti-Brexit propaganda on FB and marching to have the vote overturned. I've just discovered why. Despite living in the UK for over 30 years, marrying an Englishman, having two children she has never applied for British citizenship.

My next door neighbour, by comparison, has lived in the UK for 30 years, married an Englishman, had three children and has dual British citizenship, as have her children.

Both have degrees from this country, both are professional women. Why, oh why, has the former not taken out British citizenship before now if it now means so much to her?

Because Anya she did not need it and some people were told that when they started an application -also some countries do not allow dual citizenship - I think Holland may fall into this group.

Wasn't Prince Phillp born in Greece? Time the queen was a bit more forceful with the PM methinks. Or perhaps after nearly 70 years with him she'd be quite happy if Phillip got deported.

Why, oh why, has the former not taken out British citizenship before now if it now means so much to her?

Because until that disastrous Leave vote she was perfectly entitled to remain in the UK by virtue of her EU citizenship and probably didn't think that the UK woukd be daft enough to vote to leave the UK.

I'm that people in her position are being castigated by leave voters for not taking out citzenship they never thought they'd need when it was their vote which has caused all the bother.

The EU could have agreed with T May before Christmas and all countries agreed a deal for EU nationals and also British living and working abroad, so why oh why blame only T May? It was the EU who were saying no to it!
What if T May had agreed to all EU nationals here being safeguarded as to homes and jobs, and the EU had then dragged their feet for years and years on the subject of our own people abroad?As we well know, the EU doesn't do anything in a hurry.
No, it has to be an agreement from all, and at the same time.

The important part of my post was if it means so much to her.

Staying in this country does mean everything to her. I took out insurance on m house even though I never imagined I'd have a fire. It's the same mindset.

And I'm not castigating anyone Maisie my exact words, had you bothered to read and understand my post, was that I was exasperated with her. That's a long way from your nasty accusations.

PS I didn't vote leave either. Nor did I vote remain.

Well it is a lot of bother to take out UK citizenship. You have to sit a language test which must be frustrating if you are fully fluent. Then you have to sit a very silly citizenship test involving knowledge of UK monarchs etc.
Someone I know did it recently - she had been living here for decades with a partner who died a few years ago. She is fluent in English and Cymraeg and feels this is her home. It cost her a lot of time and trouble and "the thick end of £2000 quid" to go through the process.

We can't have UK citizens who don't have a complete grasp of our Kings and Queens though, can we Jess?

Prince Philip became a British citizen in 1947 although he served in the RN before that time as it wasn't strictly necessary since he was British by birth through the 1705 Act of Naturalisation, but just a confirmation.
Very sensible.

It's not as expensive as in some other countries then.
Cyprus: €2,500,000 to €5,000,000

Anya the HomeOffice were refusing to give citizenship to some people telling them they did not need it - some people they agreed to give them visas of long duration but never issued the visas for the same reason and now will not give the citizenship as they haven't had this CSI insurance which no one knew they needed and no one was told they should have - just being told to pack their bags and make their own arrangements! People who have British families. The whole thing is ridiculous and maybe some new instructions should be given to cover position these people find themselves in.

I'm quite sure that all these people will be able to stay, eventually. But in the meantime it's a huge worry for my unfortunates friend.

Anya I would imagine what 'meant so much to her' was being part of the EU and therefore able to keep the nationality of her birth country whilst living in her adopted one. There are many people who do this, not least among them the Brits who are living in Spain and Portugal and have done so for many years. Should they have taken out Spanish citizenship before now? Will they do so now or is that different in some way?

It 'meant so much to her' because she always delighted in her 'adopted' country trisher and was more 'English' than many native-born people I know. It hadn't occurred to me that she didn't have British nationality, until she told me she couldn't vote in the referendum. That's why I'm exasperated with her, in a fond and caring way.

Even the language test isn't that straightforward. I would guarantee that 100% of native speakers wouldn't pass it. I've tutored students in the past for it and there are definitely some exam techniques which need to be learned. All good news to me, of course!

As roses said, Mrs May would willingly safeguard homes and jobs for EU nationals. Unfortunately the EU is not prepared to simultaneously agree the same right for our nationals living in EU countries. Mrs May can hardly do a one sided deal that would leave our nationals vulnerable, with no leaverage to alter that situation should the EU dig its heels in! How can the deviousness of the EU ( another good reason for leaving imo) possibly be the fault of Mrs May?!!
A rather silly comment JessM As I think you'll find that Prince Phillip became a naturalized British Subject on his marriage to HM, having given up his Greek citizenship. I think you'll also find that they are both devoted to each other, which after 70 years is, these days, slightly strange and perhaps hard to believe, but for this elderly couple it is refreshingly true.

Another friend (sounds like I have a lot of friends, but I don't really) have just (well 5 years ago) sold their house in Spain and returned to the UK (if you can class the Fylde Coast as such).

Their reasons was all to do with access to the NHS as they are now knocking in a bit.

Of course, this has been happening to Commonwealth citizens for some time now.
Even those married to British citizens with British children - and of British ancestry from way back.

Jalima I hardly think you are comparing like with like. The eye watering sums you mention are for a fast track scheme for wealthy( and in some cases) probably dodgy individuals. The process for, for example, a U.K. Citizen married to a Cypriot and living there( min 2 years) is cheap and straightforward( about €300).

It was just an aside about the astronomical cost of applying for Cypriot citizenship.
It wasn't even an opinion!

300 euros - that doesn't sound so bad for some oranges and

Jalima your comment wasn't an aside. It was completely misleading and wrong in the context of a discussion about EU citizens in the UK applying for citizenship.

It would indeed be fascinating to know how many UK expats who have retired to the sun on the Costas and in France have applied for citizenship there.