The Trump presidency

As for waiting and seeing as a strategy - thanks to those not waiting and seeing but fighting his EO on entry, hundreds of people at the moment at least are being reunited, taking up opportunities to work and study - 'wait and seeism' - the last refuge of the couldn't care less at best or those who secretly support him and his mysogyny and racism at worst

I actually think thatbags that those who want Obama back kind of know he can't come back but are making a statement

Agreed, rigby, a heads in the clouds statement. ? That remark is not necessarily negative.

I think the wait and seeism is rather an acceptance of the fact that Trump is president whether one likes it or not. One can wait and see (and support) what objections and 'fights' are raised over his actions.

I think that is very harsh, Rigby and misses the point of my post. I am an American citizen with relatives and a DD and grandchildren in the USA. I did not vote for DT.

But if, after many comments detailing my objections to him as a president and as a human being, I suggest that we have to wait and see what he does next, then the inference( and the record) suggests that, despite my disdain, he is, after all, the legally elected Potus and we cannot yet just impeach him.

Please do not presume. My family, friends and I have fought him on every issue.

It's not to do with impeaching him - God knows if that would ever happen but it's to do with fighting and opposing and protesting now because that's part of democracy isn't it. Does anyone actually really believe that he is going to change if given a chance? Of course not, he would take passive wait and seeism as consent to do more of the same. We are not dealing with normal here - he is a monster who is I really believe putting the world at risk

Do you honestly think he'll wake up one day and think that women are worthy of respect or that they should have control over their own bodies? Dream on

Rigby, did I ever say that?

He is not going to change. Of that I am certain, but he is the President and cannot be removed just like that.
In addition, there is the added factor that Mike Pence, who would take over if DT is impeached, is himself questionable. What could be expected of one of the founder members of The Tea Party movement( not the Teapot Party as a previous poster called it).
If Mike Pence is impeached, then it is the Secretary of State who takes over...another disaster.
I respect your passion but please direct it appropriately.

I agree with you, by the way, Rigby!

more like the Crackpot Party!

Yes I was talking about it with my sister and brother in law this afternoon and we decided that unless something wonderful happens like the whole lot resign, then there is really no alternative but to sit out the 4 years, as Pence is another very dodgy character. We just have to hope he doesn't start a war.

And the Secretary of State even more so, if that is possible!

Isn't that 'wait-and-seeism' whitewave?

Not in the definition I mean ana I mean that there is no choice but to sit out the Trump prsedency, but if I was an American I would not wait and see as his policies unfold. There is enough evidence from before the election, Bannons previous writings and web site to understand the danger they pose to the world. So that is where I wouldn't wait and see I would make my feelings felt at every stage just as millions of people are doing all around the world.

whitewave re your previous question, several Republican states , such as Indiana, for instance, are seeking to curb protests against DT. This is a work in progress and may or may not succeed.

The past two weeks of turmoil suggest that more turnoil is to come.

Re "wait and seeism", my final comment several posts back was misinterpreted. My point was exactly the one you state above.

Americans, even immigrant expats like myself, are very active in our protests whether these take place in the USA or elsewhere, as we would be against any injustice.

End of that point.

Following Trump on twitter and the reaction he is generated is like nothing I e ever experienced. Americans are pretty cross aren't they?

So he's taken on the media and now the judiciary. I see Bannons hand behind all this.

It is a fascist technique.

Oh dear. Trump attacking the judiciary and saying if anything goes wrong blame the judges. Dangerous waters.

Just hope there's no terrorist attack in the US anytime soon or it will give Trumpkin the excuse he doesn't need. Imagine!

To take the thread back a bit (because I've only just come back here after a couple of hours break!) I'm not sure why thatbags is posting the Guardian article as if it were news to many of us why some people voted for Trump. I seem to recall that she's posted similar things about the Brexit vote, with much the same message, i.e. that some people do 'get' why people voted the way they did; as if most of us didn't 'get' it. Well I, for one, absolutely did 'get' why people who felt ignored and 'left behind' voted for Brexit within 24 hours of the result, and I 'got' why people voted for Trump for the same reason. The Guardian has been full of articles like that ever since June. But 'getting it' doesn't make the fact that their vote won't solve their problems (and that it may, in fact, make them worse) any easier to accept.

The problem, as I see it (and I am as guilty of this as the next person)is that most people, in any culture, are happy to pootle along with things as they are and leave 'politics' to the relatively few who are interested and active. Voting is about the only political act most of us do and even then increasingly fewer people bother to turn out for General Elections and even fewer for local elections. Egged on by a large part of the media we distrust and despise 'politicians' focussing on their faults and largely ignoring anything good they may be doing. And yet we think that wrongs can be righted at a stroke if only 'someone' had the will to do it. We don't appreciate the complexities of change; that a radical change may adversely affect others or have completely unforeseen consequences.

As he's not a politician, Trump appears to have this simplistic view and it really appealed to voters. He may, or may not, discover that it isn't actually that simple. Perhaps the real fears and divisions he's already succeeded in raising may make us all sit back and reflect that radically disturbing the status quo might not be a particularly good idea after all.

I'll say nothing about our domestic situation because I've gone on for long enough.

P.S The Guardian often publishes articles from much of the political spectrum (I don't recall any UKIP supporting articles though)

As I understand it only two Presidents have been impeached or threatened with impeachment. One was President Jackson the second President Clinton. Nixon resigned before he could be impeached, Clinton managed to avoid it! Maybe Bills past had something to do with Hillary's failure to secure the Presidency. She was a poor choice and probably that contributed to the rise of Trump.

His attitude to women, his ban on anyone entering from those seven countries, his proposed wall with Mexico etc etc may all pale into insignificance - wait and see whether or not he starts a war in the South China Sea.
That is the most deeply worrying of the prospects under his leadership for me.

I think many rich 'elite' Americans have already looked ahead and bought themselves exclusive boltholes in New Zealand.

Not forgetting his attitude to climate change.
I wonder if he's read this.

www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/01/science-climate-change-170127115338110.html

The laws of physics carry on anyway, whether you believe in climate change or not.

I doubt he has any understanding of the laws of physics DJ

What seems to have gone unremarked on, is the fact that he's not very bright. Stupidity and blind arrogance are a very dangerous combination.

He is being guided by Steve Bannon. The power behind the throne.

Certainly not very well educated or well read. Never built a business up from the bottom. Never worked as a subordinate in an organisation.