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Can the Tories be trusted with OUR National Health Service

(505 Posts)
whitewave Thu 09-Feb-17 08:16:20

Listening, watching and reading, I would say no.

Jalima Sat 11-Feb-17 23:05:02

I am sorry to hear about your husband djen.

I am sure there are lots of individual stories which are very distressing but this one is not a good example, it has too many unanswered questions and it all sounds very odd.

durhamjen Sun 12-Feb-17 00:10:19

If you were shown the letters from the hospital about my husband you would think the same. He was told he hadn't said he was in pain. He was on a morphine drip!

The solicitor went through the letters and said it was a difficult case to prove, so we asked to take copies home and read through them. The solicitor then said that the only reason she had them was because she had said that she would not let them out of her office, so we said that was fine and we would read through everything in her office.
So she relented. We took copies home with us, a file over an inch thick, and pointed out all the anomalies to her when we next saw her. She then realised that the hospital wasn't telling the truth.

In Mr West's case he claimed he was told that he had weeks, possibly months, to live. That wasn't in any letter.
They did accept that it had been said.

"We acknowledge that in circumstances such as this whereby a diagnosis of cancer cannot be definitely confirmed, all possible alternative diagnosis should be considered. We recognise that clinicians should avoid giving life expectancy estimates to patients where the diagnosis is not confirmed."

Most people when they are told that probably give up. He didn't, probably because his wife was American? When it said that his wife was having treatment in America, that's what I assumed.

I don't see as many holes in the story as you do. I just see another person who has been messed around by the system.

Fitzy54 Sun 12-Feb-17 01:56:14

Jen, I'm truly sorry for all you and your husband have been through, and while I do have doubts about Mr W's case i accept that all he says may be true. My only point, and please don't take it personally, is that medical practice the world over involves many mistakes, just the same as all other jobs, and those involved will often be reluctant to own up - especially given pressure from insurers. It's not specifically an NHS issue.

JessM Sun 12-Feb-17 18:38:20

flowers djen
NHS complaints handling needs a makeover. It's still far too defensive and expensive.
The BBC have been doing quite a good job of covering the strains on the NHS.
Letter today from the RCS saying that there are so few beds in some places that surgeons are twiddling their thumbs.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38948255
This has been brewing for a while. I remember about 3 years ago a relative who isa chest consultant saying his hospital was getting badgered by the Department of Health to cut the number of beds. In the interests of "efficiency" of course.

durhamjen Sun 12-Feb-17 19:23:02

The chart that's not on your link, Jess.

i2.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/170212-blamestorm.jpg?w=539

I saw that surgeon on the news this morning. The obvious way to stop bedblocking is to open up the wards that were closed. Lots of them.

I have said before about our local cottage hospital that had its only ward closed. They said it was because of a problem with the water tank, but a problem with a water tank should close the whole hospital not just a ward.
Anyway, in the local paper it said this week that the hospital has been taken over by the council, under registration as a community asset.
More than 5000 people signed a petition in support of it, and our MP had it discussed in the commons.

Ankers Sun 12-Feb-17 19:38:11

It's not specifically an NHS issue.

Absolutely true sadly.

JessM Mon 13-Feb-17 21:35:40

Scary news on the regional plans for more "reforms" - hospital closures etc in England
inews.co.uk/nhs/nhs-crisis-19-hospitals-face-axe-as-doctors-accuse-government-of-deliberate-underfunding/

durhamjen Mon 13-Feb-17 23:09:56

Just seen that, Jess. Why is the BBC so far behind?
We've been saying that for ages. It's a problem of splitting up the NHS into 44 separate footprints, not giving people a say in it, and not giving all the information.

durhamjen Mon 13-Feb-17 23:11:51

Good, isn't it, Hunt saying last week that it's unacceptable, knowing that there was going to be a further loss of 2000 beds.
He's such a prat - nice word for him.

durhamjen Tue 14-Feb-17 23:42:17

inews.co.uk/nhs/great-nhs-gamble-ae-units-risk/

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/health/great-nhs-gamble-17m-public-funds-spent-private-consultants-save-health-service-money/

inews.co.uk/nhs/came-an-nhs-nurse-to-save-lives-now-i-have-cancer-and-my-ae-is-closing/

Anyone who still thinks the NHS is safe in Tory hands should read the i this week.
Today's has all about the STPs.

durhamjen Tue 14-Feb-17 23:46:24

inews.co.uk/nhs/nhs-crisis-19-hospitals-face-axe-as-doctors-accuse-government-of-deliberate-underfunding/

Fitzy54 Wed 15-Feb-17 13:51:50

I wouldn't crtisise the govt. for trying to change things, or for using some private services where they work better, but I would agree that huge changes like this represent a huge risk. Feels like too much too quickly. I don't buy the "deliberate underfunding" claim.

JessM Wed 15-Feb-17 18:03:58

Why not Fitzy54 - the Tories are not that daft are they, to somehow not realise they are underfunding?

JessM Wed 15-Feb-17 18:14:07

Accidental lack of being able to do maths?

Ankers Wed 15-Feb-17 18:49:07

To balance the article about lincolnshire a bit, my area has quite a bit worse facilities than in Lincolnshire, and even with the two hospitals left open , that is still better than what we have.

I did wonder, if that is what is happening. That facilities are being looked at to come down to the level we have had here forever and a day as in always.

That said I do feel sorry for the inhabitants of Lincolnshire.

I read somewhere that SW London has 5 hospitals. 5! We should be so lucky.

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 19:29:01

A&E units for closure or downgrading in STPs.

inews.co.uk/nhs/full-list-24-aes-marked-closure/

Fitzy, where have you been?
How can asking for £22 billion in savings not be deliberate underfunding?

All this information in the i this week is as a result of an investigation by Johnson Press journalists all round the country. They have been working for months trying to find all this information and collate it.
Last week when Hunt said what was happening was unacceptable and he had a plan, this was it. It is still not supposed to be for the general public's consumption. It was thought to be too explosive.

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/health/great-nhs-gamble-investigated-important/

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 19:41:54

This is about my local STP.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/protestors-march-against-641m-nhs-12538059

Theresa May said she was committed to a fully funded NHS. How can she say that knowing that it was being cut?

The Specialist A&E hospital at Cramlington has already been apologising for not hitting its targets. It's been open less than a year. I had to wait for nearly two hours with my mother-in-law, 94, in the corridor on an ambulance trolley. There weren't enough staff for a handover.

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 19:50:11

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/health/great-nhs-gamble-17m-public-funds-spent-private-consultants-save-health-service-money/

Fitzy54 Wed 15-Feb-17 21:02:10

It depends on what you mean by underfunding, I have no doubt whatsoever that in order to provide the services we all want we need a lot more funding. I just don't think the money is available. I wish it was. I have seen posts saying the problem with the NHS - and other issues - is underfunding "pure and simple". My take is that the the problem is that we just don't have enough money. I don't see how any govt. can possibly provide the services we want with the resources we have.

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 21:22:20

Get more resources. Make tax avoiders/evaders pay. Stop the cap on NI contributions.
Easy. Just needs the will.
Instead the government is cutting the number of HMRC staff to collect taxes.

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 21:24:27

?? durhamjen. It's not about tax avoidance, it's about mass, it's about too many people. How bizarre that people think this.

Fitzy54 Wed 15-Feb-17 21:39:11

I posted this link on another thread. It suggests there is a limit to the amount of tax the govt. can collect. Makes sense to me but I would like to hear what everyone thinks. This seems to me to be the critical issue in respect of most of the political threads.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f83a5c3e-f21b-11e6-a45f-cc1b99ad256c

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 21:45:24

Theresa May was at Copeland today. She was asked four times what she thought about the maternity hospital being closed and didn't answer the question.
The NHS is a big problem in Cumbria. The next constituency north will lose three cottage hospitals. People in the area will be sent to Newcastle for any specialist treatment. But Theresa May didn't think it important enough to address.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2017/02/15/theresa-may-copeland-by-election-airbrushing-nhs-crisis-nuclear-power-moorside-gywnne_n_14766620.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics

What do you think pays for our NHS, saak?

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 21:47:17

Come on, fitzy, Mark Littlewood.
Behind a paywall means we can't read it unless we pay for it.
That says it all.

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 22:27:54

Im not sure why a "maternity" hospital should remain one to be fair. It doesn't make sense that any particular area should have a hospital soley for one thing when it could be better served as a hospital with a maternity unit within.