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Magic Bullet

(114 Posts)
vampirequeen Fri 10-Feb-17 13:48:54

Jeremy Hunt says there is no magic bullet that can sort out the problems in the NHS.

He's wrong. I can tell him exactly what the NHS needs. The money that has been pulled from the system over the last decade needs to be put back. The same goes for the money pulled from social care.

We not only need a medical system that is properly funded but we need social care so that people who are not ill enough to stay in hospital but need support can be cared for either in their homes or in residential care.

Where can we get the money from? Well, Jeremy, we could start by collecting all the taxes due to us from the large companies and rich individuals which currently -fiddle the system- use tax avoidance schemes. Far more money would be available if we scrapped Trident. Just think what we could do with £240 billion.

We are amongst the richest countries in the world. There is no excuse for our welfare system to be in the current state of collapse.

tanith Fri 10-Feb-17 14:19:45

Our local council are going to raise our Council Tax 2% this year and ring fence the money for the social care budget. I hope it helps and don't begrudge the rise if it goes where its supposed to.

I agree with what you say vampirequeen it is very complicated but they need to start somewhere to put things right.

Anya Fri 10-Feb-17 14:34:44

It's a start, that's all.

It needs to be tackled from both ends and the middle. More money put in to provide more beds ( seeing surgeons sitting around unable to perform operations because of lack of beds is totally a waste of money) and more care beds and care packages to move those out of hospital who need it.

Then the general public need to take responsibility for their own health and stop digging themselves into early graves with their knives and forks.

Just those three measures financed, sourced and implemented for a start would go a long way to easing the situation.

Ginny42 Fri 10-Feb-17 15:49:26

Good post VQ although a depressing situation not likely to get better any time soon.

The health secretary said there was “no excuse” for some of the problems being seen in the health service and that some of the care being offered was not what anyone would want for their family.

Well I couldn't agree more Mr Hunt. So why the excuses? Run the system down, blame everyone but yourself and then tell us it's not working? confused There is only one person who can put this right and it's YOU.

The failure is not the NHS, but his and the government's. They're driving this policy of starving the service of funds.

Even if Hunt did the right thing and resigned,it must be Tory policy. He must be doing what TM wants, so she would simply replace him with another with the brief to prove the NHS is unworkable and will have to be privatised.

Cue fat cats moving in to buy hospitals paid for by working people and many of them round here newly upgraded and ready for sale.

tanith Fri 10-Feb-17 15:53:24

Fat cats have already taken over many services including the parts of the Ambulance Service, its been going on for years I'm afraid by the back door and the public are only just realising whats been going on but it seems many of them either don't care or believe the Governments mantra that its not a bad thing..

Fitzy54 Fri 10-Feb-17 16:18:19

VQ I doubt there is much more money to be found by targeting the rich and large companies. We could scrap trident but I believe even Corbyn's Labour say any savings would need to go to shore up our woefully deflated defence services. As to what's happened over the last 10 years, the Tory Govt. inherited a huge debt. I don't recall their election platform being "don't worry about the debt. We'll adopt the Greek system and borrow until we are truly bankrupt". Had this been in their manifesto I wouldn't think they would have got many votes! Actually, the health service has probably been subject to less pain than most other bufgets. In any event, if we are to find a lot more money I would think it will have to be via general taxation - all of us chipping in. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see much enthusiasm for across the board income tax rises. Everybody seems to want someone else to foot the bill!

paddyann Fri 10-Feb-17 16:59:50

they inherited a debt of just over 800 BILLION now after their amazing finacial ability its sitting at 1 .6 TRILLION ...I think the problem is the Government ,the NHS in England is in an appalling state ,Scotland is in a better place but then WE cant borrow we have to balance our budget.A nd E figures for this winter show 92% of patients presenting at A and E were seen and sent home or moved to a ward well within the 4 hour schedulle .96% of patients say they are "more than satiisfied" with NHS Scotland ,although we DO still have issues that need dealing with we appear to be managing the system better than the rest of the UK .Better management is the key to sorting the problems ,however the Tories would rather run it into the ground so they have an excuse to privatise it.You have my sympathy ,things will only get worse.

Ana Fri 10-Feb-17 17:24:48

Although Scotland is more than £15 billion in debt and its deficit is almost twice as large as the UK as a whole, so who knows how long they can keep their NHS going as well as it apparently is?

Jalima Fri 10-Feb-17 17:25:38

I saw some people being interviewed on the news last night and they agreed that we need more social care, more council services.
However, they said that they did not want to pay more council tax nor pay to have their green waste collected.


sunseeker Fri 10-Feb-17 17:29:41

We could always stop sending money to China to help their elderly and spend it on ours I suppose

Fitzy54 Fri 10-Feb-17 17:51:27

The debt has gone up but how could the avoid that when they came into power at the start of a 5 year global recession where tax receipts went down and they still had to borrow huge amounts of money and pay interest on existing debt? The deficit is reducing so the increase in the increase in the debt is finally levelling off. Labour, I believe, want to increase borrowing substantially. I can't say I find that appealing.

Fitzy54 Fri 10-Feb-17 17:52:58

Sorry - too many "increases"! Must start proof reading my posts!

Ginny42 Fri 10-Feb-17 19:47:07

Sorry Sunseeker, please can you tell me more about the money to China to support elderly Chinese?

sunseeker Fri 10-Feb-17 21:14:14

This was reported in several newspapers, The Telegraph, The Sun, The Mail. The following is from the Telegraph (sorry can't do links)

Steven Swinford, deputy political editor
7 FEBRUARY 2017 • 12:19AM
The UK is planning to spend taxpayers’ money on improving social care for China’s elderly population and boosting its fashion industry.

The Government has announced plans to spend £1.3 billion on improving economic growth in “middle-income” countries such as China, India and Mexico.

The Foreign Office has outlined a series of “policy objectives” for the funding in China with “suggested projects” including improving “care in the community for elderly people in China” and the “sustainability of the health system”.

vampirequeen Fri 10-Feb-17 21:54:28

Fitzy24, the amount owing from large companies runs into £billions.

I've read the news reports about aid to China. They're not as definitive as the headlines make them sound. Firstly the money isn't necessarily going to China as India and Mexico were also mentioned. The projects are merely 'suggested'. This sounds like double speak. We give aid to countries like China and India because those countries invest in and buy from the UK. Money is paid to these countries as 'aid' but it often serves a less altruistic purpose. Wheels have to be oiled.

Jalima Fri 10-Feb-17 22:43:52

Money is paid to these countries as 'aid' but it often serves a less altruistic purpose. Wheels have to be oiled.
That sounds suspiciously like blackmail or a bribe.

sunseeker Sat 11-Feb-17 08:18:19

vq I take your point but why are we considering sending money to these countries when the care of our elderly is in such dire straits? I have never understood the idea of "buying" trade. My DH and I ran a business for many years and some of our competitors would "buy" work by working for just over cost - they soon went out of business.

Fitzy54 Sat 11-Feb-17 08:32:36

VQ I know there are many people who say that large companies owe billions, but I've seen no convincing evidence. What may be true is that they should owe a lot more - e.g. Should our corporation tax system tax foriegn companies in a different way. But options and the effect of those options is a very complex issue.

petra Sat 11-Feb-17 09:24:42

Sunseeker At least we have stopped sending any more money to the Ethiopia 'spice girls'

mumofmadboys Sun 12-Feb-17 09:27:09

If income tax went up by one per cent wouldn't that raise a vast amount ?By all means protect the poorer paid

teabagwoman Sun 12-Feb-17 09:28:28

Have to agree with a lot that's been said here especially the comments about governmental plans to run down the NHS and encourage privatisation. Having had managerial experience in the social care sector I think we also have to start facing up to the true cost of providing social care. To do it well is a skilled job and staff need to be paid properly. Just to throw another log on the fire, it seems to me that we personally have to face up to the idea that we may need care and start putting money aside for it if we are in a position to do so. I know people will shout at me that they've paid taxes all their life and now the state should look after them but is that really tenable these days?

Marieeliz Sun 12-Feb-17 09:31:42

How about charging NHS Tourists. When my brother was in a 6 bed ward there was 1 Canadian there. He had come over to stay with family and get his operation! Its no good NHS staff saying its not their job to do border control. If I visit any other country I have to show my insurance and credit card. Even in Europe the Tour guide advises you to pay privately not to go to the General Hospital. If NHS wont monitor who is to use the service, they cannot blame the Government, and Labour where as bad, if they end up loosing their jobs to a private Company.

holly100 Sun 12-Feb-17 09:34:08

Also have to look at suppliers for NHS - story out today about a company charging £880 to supply and fit a window blind - The matron went to Homebase and paid £23 and got estate worker to fit
Hossspitals being charge £11 for roll of selloptape -
This has to stop!!!!

Christinefrance Sun 12-Feb-17 09:37:22

I agree with Fitzy54 and teabag woman, everyone needs to take some responsibility for health care. We all need to pay a bit more towards health and social care not just the wealthy. People on low incomes etc will be protected anyway. I too am concerned at the move toward privatisation but the NHS & Social Care are far too unwieldy now.

grannimimi Sun 12-Feb-17 09:41:36

Given the huge and increasing numbers of elderly we have no choice but to educate ourselves on healthy eating and lifestyle. Then only people who have had no choice in the state of their health and cant afford to pay for social care can be looked after. Individual and social responsibility is the key if we care about maintaining health and welfare services to a decent quality for those that really need it. The first thing is being given the truth about what a healthy diet is and what is in food. I happened to speak with a farmer recently who told me the reason there's so much cancer is because many farmers exceed the permitted levels of hormone injections in livestock and no one checks. All sorts of chemicals are injected into meat, poultry and farmed fish. This also happens with pesticide levels in crops and vegetables. Buy organic and if you can grow your own chemical free. This is quite apart from the fast food consumed so widely from childhood upwards and the huge amounts of toxic sugar, palm oil and trans fats in everything. Pensioners and those with time on their hands need to stay active walk wherever we can, swim, cycle, play tennis. I personally think it would be helping people to pursue a strong preventative campaign including education and rehab programs for those suffering from lifestyle induced, obesity, diabetes, heart and liver disease etc. There's no pleasure in living longer if it's with poor health and insufficient care.