Magic Bullet

Sorry Ana. Bevan said "The Tory Party". Yes I do understand that it is difficult to have ones value judgements and beliefs challenged but surely none of us need protection from the truth...or do we. It is comfortable to remain in ignorance and let others do the worrying but I prefer to know what is going on. By the way I have a friend who always says if you have any anxieties tell my mother. Mother worries for England and she will do it for you and then you can relax.

Ana

One time it's all 'Hope not Hate' the next it's 'The Tories are Hated', now we are ' Lower than Vermin.'

Hmm.

They need to bring back a basic care nurse level - there are lots of people who would like to work as a nurse but do not want or cannot afford to take a degree course first. We constantly hear complaints about patients being left without food/drink/in dirty bed linen - these were all tasks the SEN nurses would deal with previously as part of their job role. Beds are being blocked because there is simply nowhere else for recovering patients to go to - they may not be ill anymore but they are also not ready to go back to their homes. We need an in-between solution - carers in the community are not the answer as they are run for profit and 15 minutes per call is nowhere near enough time to look after someone newly returned from hospital. What would relieve a lot of the pressure on A&E departments would be if GP's held drop in sessions as well as scheduled appointments - so many people are forced to go the A&E because they cannot get to see their GP.

Remember what Aneurin Bevan said "The Tories are lower than vermin".

I'm not quite sure how you think that's going to go down with the many Tory supporters/voters on here, blueskies!

Let's stop sending aid abroad and focus on our social care, I think the NHS would benefit hugely from that. Let's also stop people entering the country if they don't have medical insurance.

How is it that we have all been so hoodwinked? I was brought up and educated to be a critical thinker and it amazes me that so many just believe everything they read in newspapers without taking on board who owns the newspapers.
Our Welfare System belongs to us--we have paid for it over and over again. That is why it is called National Insurance.
Greedy people have been selling it off under our noses for decades. Google the full list of MPs who have links to Private Health Firms. Seventy of them--all parties. Look how Tricky Dicky Branson has trousered and profiteered from the best bits-and he doesn't pay tax on it. We need to take back control of every bit that has been sold off. This is why everyone is so frightened of Jeremy Corbyn especially the media. Whether you like him or not he is fighting for our NHS. Remember what Aneurin Bevan said "The Tories are lower than vermin". We have to have someone on our side for the sake of our children and grandchildren.

I agree with all the comments about healthy living and personal responsibility but I would like to return to ginni42 point on 10 February. Our government is responsible for maintaining and improving the NHS and we need to hold them to account to do just that and stop blaming others. We more than anyone will need a vibrant 'healthy' NHS and so we should, I believe, start to take action by writing to our MPs and learning what the true situation is so that we don't fall foul of xenophobic anxiety.

I think we (as a country) need to look at the gross amount of wastage in Foreign add, and how much of this money is spent.

Similarly in the NHS, I have just been reading about one NHS trust spending over £800 on a set of window blinds, which were available in Homebase for £23. Also paying locums up to £4000 per day's work.

It seems some of the management teams may have degrees, but they don't have much common sense!

I think it is vital to remind people that when the NHS works well, it is absolutely fantastic. We have just been to A & E at Warwick Hospital and received quick, efficient and thorough treatment. After a night on the Observation Ward, my husband was sent home and within three hours mobility aids to help him recover were delivered to our home.

I was a medical secretary in an acute hospital and my experience is operations cancelled, not enough nurses on the wards, long 12 hour shifts, patients discharged too early to relatives often unable to cope, cleaning outsourced, outpatient appointments often cancelled 3 times, long waits for appointments, patients not turning up for appointments thus wasting a slot that could be given to someone else, our managers constantly changing with new ideas, changing the way we work, locum doctors costing a lot, staff with not a good enough knowledge of our language, lack of social care and nursing homes closed resulting in "bed blocking" and so on and so. My experience is medical staff giving their all under extreme pressure to give patients the best care they deserve. Nearly all the medical staff I came across were dedicated, hard working, conscientious people, often working much longer than their contracted hours. As for mental health care ..........appalling. Bed cuts, units closed, too much reliance on drugs as a quick fix, mentally" ill joining the homeless, "community care" severely lacking in many cases, social workers overburdened with work often leading to burnout. This Tory government needs to remember they are there to serve ALL the people, ALL the community, not just those who are fortunate to be able to afford private care.

While I do agree with what you say VQ, the reason the health and social care service is in the state it's in is because funds are stretched too thinly and priorities being miss-managed, not that there's isn't enough money in the first place. In the main this is because there are a) too many people in this country especially those not entitled to be here and who use the services b) people are not taking responsibility of care for themselves or their families and c )there are too many chiefs and not enough indians.

The NHS was never set up to cater for nearly 70 million people (there are probably more than that in the UK and figures are being fiddled). It was not set up to give boob jobs or other cosmetic surgeries or treat self inflicted conditions bought on by being obese or starving yourself, over indulgence in drinking, smoking or taking drugs neither was it set up to change people's sex, kill the unborn or fertilise the barren.It was set up to cure or alleviate the diseases of the day and treat injuries.

The elderly are being ignored by their own families who think the state should pick up the bill and whenever there are cuts,it never seems to be with management.

There was an article on radio today where a surgeon had posted on his facebook page that official contractors had quoted nearly £850 to supply and fit a black out blind in a room. One of the matrons went to Homebase, bought one which did exactly the same job for £23 and got it fitted for free. Perhaps if the "managers" actually did their job and ensured the NHS got value for money rather than just accepting quotes there would be more money to spend on nurses.

Whilst a different organisation, I knew someone who worked for what was then British Rail. They were given a yearly budget and towards the end of the financial year he told me they would scrabble around trying to find something to spend the money on in order to ensure the budget wasn't cut. I wonder if the same mentality exists with some NHS managers.

I spend time in an EU country that has. Reciprocal agreement with UK. I have to show my EHIc card to get treatment the same as nationals but this still involves a small fee that nationals pay 5-10 € for a consultation and €30 for a and e plus a percentage of other costs, blood tests, X-rays etc. Then any other costs for my treatment are billed to the UK. Some elderly and low income nationals are exempt. We are also expected to look after our own health and are given copies of our records.

If my card is not valid I have to pay the full costs. I have to show my card before treatment and if taken by ambulance and the ambulance people ask for my card.

For nationals this is generated by ID cards that have all their details and numbers on the chip on them and you are expected to carry it. . But in the UK there is up roar if ID cards are mentioned so you have to expect fraud and miss use.

It appears that a lot of the hospital problems are caused by bed-blockers who are that bit too frail to return to their homes yet. I would like to see my village (for example) clubbing together to buy a house which could be offered rent-free to a carer couple in return for looking after two or three local people in such a position, supervising their rehabilitation back to independent living. Probably a daft idea, but that's my pennyworth!

Of course when Brexit comes the NHS will be given an extra £350m a week.

It may be a drop in the ocean, but why can't foreign health tourists be charged? When DH and I have had medical emergencies on holidays in Spain we have had our passports and E111/EHIC photocopied before receiving treatment. Now, we live and work in France and we have to pay €23 for a doctor appointment and full price for the drugs at the chemist. You pay a daily fee when admitted to hospital and a fee for the use of an ambulance. We now have the state health cards as we pay into their system and you get a partial rebate into your bank for the doctor fee and the drugs are at a reduced rate at the chemist.

When Brits use EU medical services, that country requests re-imbursement from the UK. In USA, no insurance-no treatment. I have heard that the NHS desk staff are too embarrassed to ask the foreign patients for money or insurance details. So then we aren't able to ask their country for a re-imbursement. The UK seems to be providing free medical services to the world, no wonder it is struggling to cope.

As I mentioned on "share" on this Forum. We should ask the Ethiopean Spice Girls to whom we donated millions of our overseas aid, plus we should ask India who have built space craft to give us our money back. That would be a start. Then once out of that ghastly European Union that sucks billions of money from us every year we should reduce our foreign aid budget until the NHS is up and running efficiently.

Having worked in the public sector for over 20 years I have seen the results of repeated restructuring, slimlining, whatever they want to call it. It invariably ends up with even more bureaucracy, or electronic form filling for the likes of me. This detracts from the time taken for the actual face to face contact. Yes, the government should make sure that everyone pays their fair share, including those from overseas and those who have been dodging tax. And I believe that the NHS and social care should be able to work together more smoothly. But while they are working out how to do this, I would be more than happy if income tax or National Insurance were increased. The NHS might be free at the point of contact, but it isn't actually free. The NHS and social care were not designed for today's world. We are living longer and therefore demanding an increasing number of treatments. How are they managing to increase funds at the moment? Well I know one way; my mother, who is at an advanced stage of dementia, is paying more than £900 per WEEK nursing home fees. It makes my blood boil to know that, having worked hard all their lives, she and people like her are being forced to subsidise the NHS and local authorities, who pay significantly less for those who receive funding, just because she was careful with her money throughout she her life. If that isn't exploiting the vulnerable then I don't know what is. I think I need to calm down now.

Some brilliant posts in this thread, which is why it makes me more than a little angry to read in the Sunday press about how much Mr Trump's planned visit is going to cost the tax payers.

Clearly the money is there, but the will to resusitate the NHS is not. It must be in another purse.

Actually more money has gone into NHS over recent years but there are more people, especially older ones so that's what the problem is. In Germany you provide your own food in hospital or pay for it. In France small fees are paid for doctors appointments etc. In the beginning it cost 8% of GDP and now it's 20%. In 2004 (Labour) I needed a knee replacement so I could work but it was a two year waiting list. My sons paid £7000 for me to go private. In 2012 I had a shoulder replacement privately paid for by NHS and 2013 the other knee replaced by NHS (Conservative).

The percentage of GDP spent on healthcare is roughly 9% for the UK while for Germany and France it is just over 11% and the USA is a litle over 17% so we run a lean ship for a developed first world economy.

People seem to think that improvements would be seen if money were thrown at the NHS but when Gordon Brown nearly doubled the funding it did not create a Utopian health service. Much of the increase went on salaries and management and amongst unforseen consequences was the way GP's services, hitherto available for the convenience of the patients, became inaccessible during evenings and weekends for a variety of reasons and bookings became almost impossible to secure.

It does not do to become emotive and partisan about the NHS but, like every other area which is developing and changing with technology, science and society itself, a rational approach to problems which arise needs to be taken.

My experience of the NHS concerning a recent cancer scare for my DH is that the structure, administration, speed and medical care offered were first rate while the buildings were a little shabby (though clean). This seemed to be appropriate prioritisation for a national free at point of service institution. If I want five star accommodation I can pay over the odds for private care.

I agree with most of the above good posts. and grannimimi has posted an alarming pov regarding what goes into our foods nowadays. One member of very extended family started periods at age 7, her doctor said he was seeing more and more of this. Young girls seem to be entering puberty much earlier, and breasts on young teenage girls seem to get bigger and bigger (I see a lot of this with our clients in the summer!). Surely it has to do with the hormones pumped into food, waste products in the water supply.

Banging on about my usual rant. Joe Public has to get over the idea of 'free at the point of delivery', the NHS has been underfunded since inception, much larger population nowadays, people living longer. It is antediluvian to think this state of affairs can go on and on. The stronger/wealthier members of society should be taking care of those less able/vulnerable, and not just through the voluntary contributions, which are undoubtedly essential.

The administrative system of the NHS is ridiculous and unnecessary. If all took responsibility for themselves instead of relying on these expensive administrators then so much cost cutting would happen. So not having to have the lengthy process of being referred by a GP to a consultant etc, but instead a prescription to source those resources, fix appointments being done by the patient, results delivered to the appropriate medical practioner by the patient would not only cut costs but cut down waiting times.

And why shouldn't those who are able contribute something to the costs of medical care. This is what happens in France and it works. One of my biggest fears of having to return to UK post Brexit is having to submit myself to the care of the NHS, and that is not knocking the medical personnel, just the system. I cannot afford to go privately and anyway I think for anything other than routine procedures you cannot get better than the NHS on the medical side, once you can get there. But how long is it going to be there? Already we see supply of personnel from other countries being reduced, UK doctors going overseas, and many already in the system dropping out because of the parlous state. WAKE UP CALL NEEDED.

Yes, we all need to help. Keep ourselves fit not fat, so many illnesses can be prevented by diet and exercise. Half an hour a day walking is no great effort but brings such benefits.

We definitely need to find a way of looking after the elderly. My much loved MIL has severe dementia and is in a home costing way over £1500 a week as she needs specialist nursing care. We sold her house to pay for this and don't begrudge a penny but the money will run out in a couple of years. Lots of people are not fortunate enough to have a house to sell, who cares for them?

Hospitals too could help themselves. Visiting one recently, the heating was on full blast and all the windows open. We wouldn't do this at home, where we have to pay the bills ourselves. Why don't they buy centrally instead of paying different prices for things in different areas. I know it is our beloved NHS but could it not be run as efficiently as Amazon etc with business people in charge of central purchasing?

Why do we not charge the drunk and disorderly that fill up A&E? After all, they have just spent a small fortune getting drunk in the first place. Health tourism too. In Greece, we have to pay for medical care and then claim back from our insurance. Why not here? Hospitals have to get more efficient, especially when it is not emergency care that is provided.

I am happy to pay a bit more in taxes ringfenced for the NHS and Social Care but what happened to National Insurance payments? Wasn't this supposed to be ringfenced for just those things?

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant!!

I saw a Lot of health tourists when working in nhs why can't they have to show insurance documents along with passports when travelling legally . I and a lot of other people that know HS2 should be scrapped its not needed doesn't get people to destination much quicker and if it's for capacity why can't you they put more carriages on trains and spend money saved on improving stations my local one asnt got facilities for disabled which is disgusting . Bed blocking is a big problem there needs to be more social care in place a lot of the older people don't want to go home where they are alone most of time . I know we have to help other countries but we need to look at ours first.

I have lived in the same densely populated part of England for forty years and seen nursing/care homes, both private and council, close one by one. I was in hospital 3 years ago for two weeks with a badly smashed leg and in a neighbouring bed was a lady in her late 80s, so frail I wondered how she was still alive, let alone living by herself with no relatives except a nephew who never came near. The social worker set up a care package and needed someone to be home on her return and the nephew promised to be there. He wasn't but they left her there anyway, cold and with no fresh food. She sat there until the middle of the night then became so fearful that she rang for an ambulance and next day she was back in the hospital, clearly unable to look after herself and bed blocking again. The nurses said she was in more than she was out and there was nowhere else to put her. I called in to the ward six months later when I was able to get myself to the hospital and was shocked to see the nearly blind lady from the next room still there repeating over and over, "Will somebody help me please" just as she had for the two weeks I was on the ward. The nurses said that there were many such patients, their fractures long healed but nowhere to go. Where are the nursing/care homes where they could have been cared for at a much lower cost? Six or so bedblocking patients on an acute Orthopaedic Ward and yet our council every year trumpets that our council tax is frozen for another year, I think this is Year 7 of no rise. Why do they think that makes sense as costs go up and social care is cut to the bone. That hospital is scheduled for closure now and I presume such longstayers will be transferred to a hospital out of our area, just shunting the problem along,