Magic Bullet

Pretty well agree with all the posters here, but the health tourism mentioned by Marieeliz does make me cross. I don't think.any of us want to see people turned away from hospital when they are in dire need, whatever their nationality, but health insurance should be part of the requirement before a visa is given. Other countries operate this successfully, so why don't we? Obviously this wouldn't apply to EU citizens at the moment, but it could in the future. I'm also aware that the cost involved is claimed to be small in comparison to the whole health budget, I don't know whether it is or not, but I do think that as the health service is not free to us, then neither should it be free for citizens of other countries.

We are not wealthy country we are trillions in debt and the burden of that debt has to be borne by our children and grand children.

I despair of the nonsense that suggests everything is affordable because it isn't and all the time is made less affordable by the ways in which we run things. The NHS is massively wasteful and has been for decades. I worked in NHS complaints and could see it every day. We just whitewashed things and learnt nothing.

Charities now are appealing for vols all the time to help with the loneliness issue, drive people to hospital, befriend people etc. The training that goes along with keeping the charities going is bizarre, and doesn't ensure safety for anyone, except the people on salaries at the top of the charity.

When are we going to wake up to the fact, that paying people to do even the simplest things cost a bloody fortune because of the way we do that stuff. The value we get got that money is often appalling.

I remember 'bob a job week' when boy Scouts came and for modest cost did a job that needed doing, now we have these vetted handyman schemes, expensive and deplorable standard at times. We used to have more church visitors and almoners in hospitals and replaced them all with politically correct 'volunteer schemes' and degree qualified people, half of whom could not find their bum with both hands.

We have extracted people's faith in their own neighbours and communities and even strangers to assist them ( although evidence of this is surrounds us. The vetting, training industry is rife and slows things down and no one is safer really, we just think they are.

The environment disables us, traffic moving too fast in built up areas, steep kerbs, lack of benches and public toilets, parks where people with dogs are no longer welcome, where is the life that older people used to enjoy. We are all but kettled in our own homes by the built environment. We are unfit when we can't go for walks and lonely when we can't sit on a bench and chat or potter around the town where they are no facilities.

We have so many things to help us now we ought to be out there in the main stream of life for longer, but are instead another resource for people who want to feel good about themselves to make use of.

Fifteen years ago, I moved into Devon and almost immediately had a knock on my door to inform me that I had to 'water Olive's plants' as the person who usually did it was going on holiday for a fortnight. Olive was blind and rather helpless and I was handed the baton to keep an eye on her as it was deemed my neighbourly duty.and I did it gladly.

We have been encouraged not to trust each other, when that very trust worked for years and the replacements are slow, costly and less accommodating of needs.

Pay more is only part of the solution, do more is instant, caring, personal, rewarding, why don't we just do it?

I am often unable to do much, but manage somehow and would be happy to ask for help if I needed it. I have had to ask strangers to assist a few times, never been refused help and people been happy to help, just as I am happy given the opportunity to help someone.

It is often the very smallest services that people miss.........yet can easily be done by someone who does not need to be more than helpful.

Many good ideas here, but why are they not implemented by successive governments? It's amazing that the most obvious never seems to happen. People wait in ambulances for hours; why can't we have a 'holding area' in hospitals with staff properly briefed by ambulance crew, who are then released to get on with their jobs. Yes, let's have a GP surgery in every A and E so that the idiot who comes in with a painful toe that he has had for a week gets appropriately treated - after a wait - having been told it is neither an accident nor is it an emergency.
How about convalescent homes for the so called bed blockers? This used to be the norm - after surgery or accidents patients were sent to fully recover with appropriate supervision. But who is listening - it seems that incompetence, jobs for the boys, and a situation where those in charge of everything that matters are shielded by big salaries, golden pensions, private healthcare and schooling, and homes in gated enclosures.

I watch a programme called Hospital, one week it covered people coming from abroad for treatment, given bills but never paying them, they were in the thousands of pounds, which could have been spent on people who have paid into the system, these people had come into the country specifically to be treated here, why can't we, like other countries make sure we get the money first?

A medical centre near me with large waiting times is now offering a private service to run alongside the NHS one. £145 for an appointment without braking the rules apparently. Reason being, they can't get enough doctors. I'd just love now how this improves anything, never mind the really scary 'up-front' privatisation of the NHS.

Aaagh Autocorrect NHS

Its not only the NHS in the UK, we have the same situation in Sweden, the Health Care System is going under fast, lack of Doctors and Nurses they say, and this amounts to money of course, pay them and they will appear. Another thing here, we pay taxes, plus we pay to see the Doctor, Nurse etc at the Doctors Surgery, pay huge amounts for medicines, to stay in Hospital costs too.
But everything boils down to MONEY, or the lack of it, or wrong spending, funding etc, lets hope all Politicians worldwide waken up soon, before its too late.

More beds =more staff needed to look after people .The withdrawal of the bursary for nurses and midwives has seen a big drop in applications for degree courses this Sept .Even if they see sense and reintroduce them there will be a year when we just dont produce enough of the above !If European staff start going home as a result of Brexit we really will be in trouble
The problems in the BUS affect staff as much as patients .Most ,my DD included are hugely stressed and frustrated they cannot do their jobs properly .
And to hear Jeremy Hunt pontificating makes me so angry. He has been Health Sec for some time Its his responsibility to sort it out

Good post. Tories didn't inherit a huge debt, they spent billions bailing out the banks. Think it was Norway who let their banks go and they survived. All austerity can be laid at the door of greedy Corporations, corrupt banks and MPs (remember expenses scandal, still continuing). This Government is selling all our services off and you will have to have insurance/pay for healthcare, social care. It is wrong our MPs are allowed to have jobs on company boards when they involved in Parliament. (Steve Webb (ex pensions Minister) now chair of biggest pension company, Royal Life). I feel so much for the younger generation, so much blame laid at the door of the elderly and immigrants etc, when it is just pure greed on the government and their paymasters, corporations.

I believe the whole system is flawed from how we use the NHS and in particular A&E dept to how we take care of our elderly and vulnerable citizens. We have a growing population of who need both, because of the way we live today have no one to turn to for after care in the home when they become ill. The more we depend on the NHS and social services to provide this care for our community the more expensive it'll become.

Fitzy54..... you've seen no convincing evidence that large companies owe billions in tax! Get real. Try reading 'The Great Tax Robbery' by Richard Brooks. Your eyes will be opened, I think.

I believe it all began with the closure of A&E departments and promises that by closing some and upgrading others will give everyone a much more efficient NHS. I cannot understand how having less emergency departments gives a better service. Where I live they have closed 3 A&Es. (Royal Free Trust). This cannot provide a better service. I collapsed a couple of weeks before Christmas and husband called 999. A paramedic was with us in minutes and an ambulance arrived soon after it was called for. We had a wait in the corridor of 2 hours. During this time 'my' ambulance could not be used as I was on their trolley being looked after by the crew until I could be transferred. I was admitted and was in for 4 nights. But it was like musical chairs waiting for a bed. I had to sleep 2 nights in the ressus ward. I also agree that there are 'fat cats' and a lot of money wasted. The service is top heavy with officers and not enough soldiers. But however many there are on the ground, while they take away the services by closures and mergers this will go on. A bigger population with less services cannot work. I worry what will be there for our grandchildren.

We need to get rid of the bureaucrats many of whom are paid more than senior doctors and certainly, nurses, including their bonus payments!! as well as huge pensions and lump-sum handouts. With the money saved, we can re-open all A and E departments and wards, recruit staff properly and pay them adequately, and finance social care for the elderly so they have some dignity in their last days/months/years. We need to put doctors and senior nurses in charge of health. Finally, we need to invest in training throughout the country to ensure the future and look after the staff so they don't emigrate to other countries offering better environments/wages and support.

Charity begins at home!
Perhaps if the whole NHS was re-hauled, GPs were put into A&E or had drop-in centres, both or something like that, perhaps the A&E would be less crammed. More nurses properly trained, not those who don't "do vomit and poo", it used to be a vocation, now it seems that it is a career! We need more beds, and what happened to the convalescent homes of yore?

And, yes, people should take more care of their own health, but there are people who suffer from what GPs describe as SLS or "Sh.t Life Syndrome"! The poor are always much less able to control their health.

Having said that - the NHS staff work their socks off under horrible circumstances, doing their ver best for their patients...They are patient, caring and are heroes.

Given the huge and increasing numbers of elderly we have no choice but to educate ourselves on healthy eating and lifestyle. Then only people who have had no choice in the state of their health and cant afford to pay for social care can be looked after. Individual and social responsibility is the key if we care about maintaining health and welfare services to a decent quality for those that really need it. The first thing is being given the truth about what a healthy diet is and what is in food. I happened to speak with a farmer recently who told me the reason there's so much cancer is because many farmers exceed the permitted levels of hormone injections in livestock and no one checks. All sorts of chemicals are injected into meat, poultry and farmed fish. This also happens with pesticide levels in crops and vegetables. Buy organic and if you can grow your own chemical free. This is quite apart from the fast food consumed so widely from childhood upwards and the huge amounts of toxic sugar, palm oil and trans fats in everything. Pensioners and those with time on their hands need to stay active walk wherever we can, swim, cycle, play tennis. I personally think it would be helping people to pursue a strong preventative campaign including education and rehab programs for those suffering from lifestyle induced, obesity, diabetes, heart and liver disease etc. There's no pleasure in living longer if it's with poor health and insufficient care.

I agree with Fitzy54 and teabag woman, everyone needs to take some responsibility for health care. We all need to pay a bit more towards health and social care not just the wealthy. People on low incomes etc will be protected anyway. I too am concerned at the move toward privatisation but the NHS & Social Care are far too unwieldy now.

Also have to look at suppliers for NHS - story out today about a company charging £880 to supply and fit a window blind - The matron went to Homebase and paid £23 and got estate worker to fit
Hossspitals being charge £11 for roll of selloptape -
This has to stop!!!!

How about charging NHS Tourists. When my brother was in a 6 bed ward there was 1 Canadian there. He had come over to stay with family and get his operation! Its no good NHS staff saying its not their job to do border control. If I visit any other country I have to show my insurance and credit card. Even in Europe the Tour guide advises you to pay privately not to go to the General Hospital. If NHS wont monitor who is to use the service, they cannot blame the Government, and Labour where as bad, if they end up loosing their jobs to a private Company.

Have to agree with a lot that's been said here especially the comments about governmental plans to run down the NHS and encourage privatisation. Having had managerial experience in the social care sector I think we also have to start facing up to the true cost of providing social care. To do it well is a skilled job and staff need to be paid properly. Just to throw another log on the fire, it seems to me that we personally have to face up to the idea that we may need care and start putting money aside for it if we are in a position to do so. I know people will shout at me that they've paid taxes all their life and now the state should look after them but is that really tenable these days?

If income tax went up by one per cent wouldn't that raise a vast amount ?By all means protect the poorer paid

Sunseeker At least we have stopped sending any more money to the Ethiopia 'spice girls'

VQ I know there are many people who say that large companies owe billions, but I've seen no convincing evidence. What may be true is that they should owe a lot more - e.g. Should our corporation tax system tax foriegn companies in a different way. But options and the effect of those options is a very complex issue.

vq I take your point but why are we considering sending money to these countries when the care of our elderly is in such dire straits? I have never understood the idea of "buying" trade. My DH and I ran a business for many years and some of our competitors would "buy" work by working for just over cost - they soon went out of business.

Money is paid to these countries as 'aid' but it often serves a less altruistic purpose. Wheels have to be oiled.
That sounds suspiciously like blackmail or a bribe.

Fitzy24, the amount owing from large companies runs into £billions.

I've read the news reports about aid to China. They're not as definitive as the headlines make them sound. Firstly the money isn't necessarily going to China as India and Mexico were also mentioned. The projects are merely 'suggested'. This sounds like double speak. We give aid to countries like China and India because those countries invest in and buy from the UK. Money is paid to these countries as 'aid' but it often serves a less altruistic purpose. Wheels have to be oiled.