Labour now

I don't think that anyone is saying that Corbyn didn't win the vote fair and square,
( twice ) but are saying what a destructive and divisive Leader to his Party he has turned out to be.The MP's who put his name forward ( never imagining that he would win) must now be repenting at leisure.

Trisher, I have accepted corbyn will remain leader for now. I resigned from the LP because I moved on.

If anyone wants to either do a link or read, Jonathan Friedland's article in today's Guardian sets out the reasons he believes a Corbyn led LP won't win an election. It goes on to list the things this government is not being effectively challenged on by the LP.

Even Maggie Thatcher knew that, when her party were no longer behind her, it was time to go. But Corbyn just won't take the hint will he? Even though he knows that his remaining in the job is tearing the party apart, his arrogance forces him to stay on.

Jalima ,the problem in the party is the leader , nothing can be done he has the support of Momentum and the unions . It is obvious the party will collapse at the next election . Many labour MP's are doing their own thing, Yvette Cooper is fighting for immigrant children and chair of the home select committee . Hilary Brnn is chair of exiting the European select committee, Burnham campaigning for the position of mayor in Manchester

I accept Corbyn is leader, does not mean it changes the facts he is a back stabber,a liar and a pathetic fool who cannot even handle questions from reporters . As Margaret Hodge said - he is devious

Iam64, I think you'll find that Annie hounds me quite a lot. Am I not supposed to react?
Annie wants trots and communists in the wilderness. She has called me those names quite often.

Most people on here are not Labour voters. Most of them are Tories and really enjoy the labour baiting. Do you wish to deny them that little bit of enjoyment?

I think you'll find that Annie takes every chance she can to introduce her dislike of Corbyn on any thread. Perhaps if you told her to stick to the subject, her views would not be attacked so much.

seems Khan is a popular choice for leader

I can only speak for myself Durham but when I first joined GN and posted my opinion on a political thread, you, and a couple of others, posted some pretty aggressive posts. I remember feeling rather belittled and I never posted again on such threads until this week. when I got a bit braver. I think it's a good thing to remember that everyone has an opinion but not everyone has the articulation to express themselves as well as others, for whatever reason. It's also a good thing to remember that there is a real live person sitting on the other side of a screen and they could be really upset at what is being said to and about them. And that includes everyone.

It is quite reasonable that people challenge many of anniebach's statements - that is not "hounding". She makes unsupported comments such as "Corbyn will be protected by the "British mafia" ", that those who have voted for other parties in the past are "hypocrites", that durhamjen - and presumably anyone else who has similar views to her - is "far left", etc. etc.

Isn't it reasonable to ask someone who has continually attacked the leader of the Labour Party and those people who do not wish to malign him at every opportunity, exactly what she believes in and in what way the Labour Party should "compromise" in order to capture UKIP and Conservative voters. Should sincerely held principles be jettisoned in order to attract whatever section of the voting public is thought to be in the ascendant?

I fail to understand how the oft spoken of "aspirations" of even middle income people are to be achieved when almost every indicator relating to health, education, the criminal justice system, employment, housing, social care, etc. etc. show a markedly downward trajectory. Exactly how are aspirations to be even formed, let alone achieved, when more and more families are living in insecure, expensive and sub-standard accommodation and are struggling with everyday expenses, when teachers cannot be recruited or retained and children are placed in large classes, with at least some of them going to school hungry, when there is a growing shortage of doctors and nurses ... and so the list goes on? How exactly does this grim situation, in what is said to be one of the richest countries in the world, encourage "aspiration"? These are just buzz words that mean nothing if they are not backed up with the conditions in which such aspirations may realistically be achieved.

It is not old hat or outdated to cite the strong right wing leanings of our newspaper media. The Independent (now on line only), the I and Evening Standard are owned by Evgeny Lebedev, The Daily Mail by Viscount Rothermere, the Telegraph by the Barclay Brothers, the Sun and the Times by Rupert Murdoch, The Express by Richard Desmond, the Guardian by the Scott Trust and the Mirror by Trinity Mirror. I think it is a fact that only the Mirror has consistently given its support to the Labour Party at general elections, even the Guardian has sometimes supported the Lib Dems. The other newspapers have almost always advised their readers to vote Conservative or Conservative/Lib Dem.

You were not on GN, then, when Annie was supporting Corbyn, and saying what a good man he was and what good policies he espoused, Chewbacca.
She changed her mind, and expected everyone else to do the same, calling us trots and communists, Momentum supporters and all from the far left. We're not, but she'll be back on here soon, to call us names again. Are we supposed to just take the abuse and not stand up for ourselves?

I was actually on in 2012, and left after six months because some were nasty to me.

I'll leave you with it Durham . I have no wish to enter into another spat with you.

Ilovecheese, about the bedroom tax; it will soon apply to pensioners, even though the government said it wouldn't.

speye.wordpress.com/2017/02/25/pensioners-to-face-400-million-cut-per-year-in-bedroom-tax/

And the government can get rid of zero hours contracts if they want to. They could make it law, like some other EU countries. Of course, they won't because, whatever May said on the steps of number 10, she is on the side of the employers, not the workers.

fullfact.org/law/zero-hours-contracts-uk-europe/

Whatever you like, Chewbacca. Your choice.

Let's give Chewbacca the whole truth

Yes I supported Corbyn, my opinion on him was formed by hearing him at miners galas etc.

Then C4 news showed a leaflet written by Corbyn, following the 1983 election when labour was hammered the party expelled militants , trots etc, Corbyn was running a campaign to have them reinstated.

I and so many party members worked so hard for those years to regain labour seats and whilst we were travelling around different counties, walking miles in all weather, taking insults, doors slammed in faces he was working against us . It took fourteen years before we won again,

So I certaintly changed my views on thst traitor to the party

Thanks Annie but you really don't have to explain anything to me, honestly. Your political leanings are, like everyone else's, your absolute right to own. My only gripe is that anyone who has the temerity to disagree with some posters, not all, is given something of a verbal battering. This is especially the case if you're not as politically astute; articulate or as well read as others. It is off putting for those people and obviously leads to a bias in the discussion.

It is indeed off putting and indeed upsetting, Chewbacca, but maybe you should look at the snarky comments dished out in general.

Good post, Eloethan.

I do Daphne, I do. I don't miss much.

Good! In that case you will have seen what annie and others dish out.

Good! In that case you will have seen what annie and others dish out.

Good! In that case you will have seen what annie and others dish out. Thankfully, there are other places on the net and in real life, where politics and policies can be discussed civilly and without constant negative reference to personalities.

I've seen all of it daphne. The sharp, aggressive tone that's all too frequently used when there is often no need. The derision towards those who cannot articulate their opinions as well as others and the general tone of superiority of political enlightenment. It doesn't look good.

This is an extremely interesting and surprising article by Clive Lewis.

www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy_corbyn_is_not_the_cause_of_labour_s_woes_says_norwich_mp_1_4905107

Actually, not that surprising. He always was honest. That's why he gave up his front bench position, but I expect he will be back before long.

so you aren't a"socialistAnniebach you're new labour which really isn't LABOUR at all.I thought the PARTY voted Corbyn in and the parliamentary party didn't want him? If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.The parliamentary party are clearly out of step with joe public who WANT AN OPPOSITION ,well they want to be in government BUT an opposition that will stand AGAINST austerity and all the cuts and horror the Tories are visiting on us will be good for starters .Instead Labour votes WITH tories or ABSTAINS which is the same thing.The party I'm a member of withonly 56 MP's cant fight it on their own not when 84% of MP's are English and EVEL exists.quite why Milliband was so vehement about NOT working with the SNP has always been a mystery to me,they would certainly have got more done than the rest of the OPPOSITION has to date.The SNP have never voted on English only matters anyway ...as a matter of principle ...remember that word ? It used to be common for MP's to have principles...now the only time they turn up is when they're voting through their own REGULAR pay rises.No woder the UK is going to the dogs!

Khan cannot be leader of the Labour Party. He is not an MP.
For the same reason, David Miliband cannot lead the party.
I would have thought those in the party would understand that.

It's different in UKIP and the Green Party.

trisher

"Please would all the caring people on GN who know where Anniebach is coming from explain it to me.

Actually I am going to stick up for Anniebach, ' again' .

At the risk of being repetitive Anniebach is a poster who has remained loyal to the Labour Party , UNLIKE the posters who for some strange reason have openly declared on GN there choice of political party but somehow seem to have the capacity to believe posters are idiots who won't notice if and when they declare something totally at odds with previous posts they have made.

Anniebach IS vocal with her position over the Labour 'Leader' and influences from his 'Inner Circle', as are many other posters!

It is irony to see posters who have only rejoined/joined Labour since Corbyn became Leader trying to extract answers from a well known long standing Labour member such as Anniebach. It is also irony when those posters have for so long said they 'did not/ could not support Labour' on GN for years.

Lord knows I have had some 'howlers' with Anniebach over politics but even I can understand her problem is with the Labour Leader/Corbyn/Momentum not the Labour Party/Labour PLP in general. This is a view expressed time and again by so many posters not only Anniebach.

When Corbyn became Leader some of us said there would be issues surrounding Corbyn / Momentum but this was ' denied fervently' by some posters, including Anniebach. She has however reassessed the position and has changed her mind over Corbyn's Leadership , just as others have changed their minds and moved from other political parties to support Corbyn/Labour.

Changing your mind, reassessing your view is a good thing but giving the impression your new stance has been a long standing belief is disingenuous and people see through it. At least Anniebach makes that point perfectly clear unlike some others.