Labour now

It is surely fatal for democracy if one political party manipulates the voting pattern in order to ensure that unless a miracle occurs there is little chance of ever being defeated?

Especially with the almighty Tory press.

www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/business/Toshiba-not-aware-Westinghouse-nuclear-division-considering-filing-for-Chapter-11-bankruptcy-6c88c3d4-e488-4726-8f80-f0faead343ca-ds

Is this not what trump did all the time with his companies?

Whitewave, Thatcher changed boundaries , this county had been labour for years , we lost two strong labour areas , has bounced between Libs and Tories since

thatbags

I agree with the position your OP is making.

It is , to my mind, similar to the backlash Labour received when the Unions showed too much muscle in the bad old days of the likes of the Trotskyist MILITANT , there is little to no appetite for 'revolutuon', 'bringing down the government' by the majority of voters but again that is only a personal opinion.

I think the 'center ground' appeals to a hell of a lot of people who see far left/far right politics and their 'ACTIVISM' as being divisive, especially those of us of the generation who remember how downright nasty the politics of far left/far right actions easily cause disruption and near anarchy. Of course Anarchy is a delightful thought to many and that will always be their intention.

This line sums it up for me:-

"One of the striking things about the left is this shock at working class tories, and working class people who dont want their revolution.".

I am not of the opinion that the Tories will 'clean up' in the north as I believe parties of ALL colours will maintain their heartlands and whilst the chatter today is about the Copeland Tory win I see it as a protest vote but would go back to Labour in a General Election, dependent on who is the Labour Leader if and when the next General Election takes place.

Not everybody thinks the Conservatives are a menace ww which is why they are so well ahead of Labour in the polls.
The only way that Labour could win would be if they joined together with the SNP.

Then the tail really would wag the dog!

Those bad old days led to 1983 and still Corbyn led a fight to keep those days

They are back in power in my opinion Anniebach and I have consistently said so since Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum/Len McCluskey gained so much power over the Parliamentary Labour Party.

POGS, I have said the same but was told to stop living in the past

I'm going to go away and scream!

POGS I agree with you that there are a hell of a lot of centrists who don't want a nasty party on one extreme or a neo-hippy party on the other (FWIW I don't think the UK even knows what a really extremist party looks like).

However, any centrist movement is never going to succeed in an atmosphere of sneering negativity.

roses I think we all know that many people are 'I'm alright Jacks' and couldn't care less. They're irrelevant to a discussion about the left of centre politics, because they'll never change.

SCREAM!

So how do you see the way forward annie?

Another out of touch Labour person ( blonde, blustering) Lavery? On the Daily Politics just now, being given a mauling by Andrew Neil.

Sneering negativity ? No, constructive critcism , have another scream

Scream all you like dd .....we can't hear you.

Listening to Behr from the Guardian on the DP, who is saying much what we are saying here.

DD

"FWIW I don't think the UK even knows what a really extremist party looks like)."

I don't think that is the case. From WW 2 and the Nazis /Oswald Mosley , the days of Militant and the demonstrations /activism we see today cannot nor will not fail to show what extremist parties look like. They are in existence after all.

I think it is fair to say that the demonstrations /activism we see today are not in the same league but nevertheless I sincerely do not believe they appeal to those who hold a center ground politics. Obviously activists will view matters in a different light.

I do not understand for example why people find it acceptable to spit on people who oppose their view, cause major upheaval, destruction of property , behave violently . This is most certainly the domain of the far left/far right is it not? It happens does it not? So I do believe the UK DOES know what extremist parties look like and the chasm between those who hail such behaviour and those who view it as nothing short of divisive will always prevail.

Thank goodness for the ballot box and our democracy but sadly I see that in jeopardy which is something I never thought we would contemplate in the UK.

I remember hearing a caller on LBC last year some time, saying that (in brief) the UK, and England in particular, is a naturally rightwing country.
The only time this changed was during and after WW2, when everyone was reduced to the same basic level.
That was when Labour came to the fore, and was so brilliant in planning recovery.
But then what happens? We start to revert to the old status quo. Predictable?

Ian Lavery blonde? He was grey the last time I saw him.

Yes, Tricia, and it's because the tories control communications/media.
At least Corbyn has realised that and is trying to do something about it.

Lots of people say that they want MPs with a real working background. Then one comes along, like Ian Lavery, and he gets sneered at. Not surprising that not many working class people want to be MPs.

Sorry but I think the old narrative the Tories control communications and the media is so out dated and so regularly used when something goes tits up for Labour it has become nothing more than a way to try and mitigate bad news.

Merely used as a deflection tactic to try and shut down debate.

I saw no 'sneering' about Ian Lavery! He was doing his job , trying to defend Labours reputation over the outcome of the Stoke and Copeland by-election results but he was defending the undefendable on Daily Politics.

Daphne, I have replied to your question several times

" Another out of touch Labour person ( blonde, blustering) Lavery? On the Daily Politics just now, being given a mauling by Andrew Neil."
Is that not sneering? Looks like it to me.

How many socialist newspaper groups do you know of?
Who owns Newscorp?
Who owns the Daily Mail Group?
Who owns the Telegraph?
Who owns the Times Group?

Never thought of Murdoch as being left wing, or even centre.

Who owns this group?
www.wirelessgroup.co.uk/home

Just telling it how it is. djen did you not watch the DP today?
Yep. Definitely blonde....Just For Men perhaps?

The Guardian - Centre Left (Labour, some Lib Dem)
The Independent - Centre Left (Labour and Lib Dem)
The Observer - Centre Left (Labour and Lib Dem)
The Financial Times - Centrist (Mixed)
The Times - Centrist (Mixed)
The i - Centre Left (Labour and Lib Dem)
Trinity Mirror. labour

Debatable the BBC , Channel 4 .

Sorry but it is an out of date / deflection tactic to make the statement the Tories control communications and the media and is nothing more than an excuse to not talk about the real issues.

No, I was watching Parliament TV, about the domestic violence bill.
I've watched it now. I saw no bluster. I saw him trying to be very honest, despite Neil's stance.
But then, I'm northern socialist, you're southern Tory, so it's not surprising we disagree. Ian Lavery worked at the pit that my father in law did, lived where my husband and his brothers were born.