Labour now

The Unions do not seek to wreck society, but by endorsing politicians who will not make any impact on the voter is irresponsible and short-sighted. They seem to think that everybody should should love socialist ideals, So not true.

Trisher, the press cannot be blamed for everything. The voters still fear Union power, older voters still speak of the winter of discontent , when the streets were blocked with rubbish and the dead not buried . The unions can support a party but not hsve the power to select a party leader

trisher. Not sure if you are talking directly to me. But
I don't think the comment was anything to do with a Tory government adopting Milliband's ideas far more to do with why someone would approve of what they admit is a good idea but not support the party/person who proposed that idea

I have said before that I am a floating voter. I like policies from over the place.
But on the day of voting, you are faced with 10 candidates or whatever.
You have to choose the best fit. And that includes other considerations[for me at least] such as, are they from this area, are they likely to be good for this area, are they likely to be good for the country, are they reliable and trustworthy etc etc.

Just because I happen to like one policy of the tories or Liberal or whatever,is only a part of the whole equation.

Personally I am not a big fan of charm. Personality to a certain extent yes, but charm I am wary of big time.

I dont trust union leaders[well some of them]. I still feel, give them an inch and they take as much as they can. Unreasonable is probably the best word for them.

I do think though, that in cases of an individual worker getting into trouble in some way, unions can be very good indeed.

youtu.be/yv76thedXVc

So rising star Rebecca defends breaking into a fellow MP's office

Ankers, I think personality is a better word , thanks

Or lack of it in Labour's present chosen elite (what a shower). I was watching Benn this morning, quiz David Davis and thought what a good politician he was and how it is disgraceful that such politicians are out in the cold because of some squinty-eyed excuse for a man.

I agree Beam, but he thinks for himself, not a good thing if in Corbyns circle

Thanks Ankers it is an interesting debate. I am probably much lest trustful of people like Cameron who have a vested interest in promoting the affairs of the rich and making them even richer. I still suspect that Brexit is in fact an opportunity to ensure deflation and to enable some people to make an awful lot of money. I think that Union leaders do at least have some sort of control in the form of members.

" Why do the Unions pick such plonkers that will never appeal to the middle ground? "

Because for the most part, not all, Unions are going to pick the candidate that mirrors their views the most and that was Ed Milliband and Jeremy Corbyn's political history meant he was a 'shoe in' for the Unions who hold so much power over the Labour Party ,

As for the ' middle ground ' that is not where the new/returned Labour Members want to be is it. The formation of Momentum which puts Corbyn before the Labour Party is another pointer as to the 'hope' the ' middle ground ' gets put firmly put back in the box.

trisher

"The demonisation of the Unions is a legacy of the Thatcher era and understandably perpetuated by the media whose owners succesfully removed any such input from their own arena. Unions are organisations of working people and not some autonomous beast seeking to wreck society. But hell why let the truth get in the way of a good, scary, fairy story."

No it wasn't. The Unions were loosing their grip because of their desire to bring down the establishment and they were getting totally out of hand and some of the working class began to see it for themselves having been brain washed for years.

I have said before my father was a staunch Labour man, who held positions in the Union as a Shop Steward and a Union Convenor. I used to be dragged along to meetings and voted Labour because he did. He turned his back on Labour during the ' Red Robbo 'era and so did many others. He came back from a major Labour Conference and said 'That's it, I've finished with it'. He had lost his way as the Labour Party he joined was a force for good for the likes of him, a working class man. The Unions whom he also felt was a force for good had become nothing short of a trotskyist / communist brigade that were happy to use the working man to do their bidding of bringing down the establishment, sod the fact the workers they were happy to 'use' lost their jobs, their livelihood , caused them financial hardship in the process.

During the last GE, Milliband was asked by an ordinary working man "Why should I vote Labour when it is the party for only thoseasa on benefits" Of course, he was not precisely right but Labour fail to understand the average working man is now aspirational and votes Tory or Ukip or Others and doesn't feel represented ny their traditional Party. The working man has moved on, leaving Labour to the intellectuals.

Hardly the intellectuals Beam

I voted for Ed Miliband, having seen him speak at a local event, when I liked him. I read subsequently a journalist who said if you were in a room to hear him speak, he was impressive and likeable. The journalist said that sadly did not transfer to tv, something that was clear to all within 6 months.
Beammeupscottie is right to say that many people see Labour as the party of benefit fraudsters and immigrants, a party that is out of touch with the needs of its traditional voters.
Before anyone accuses me of being anti benefit claimants or immigrants, that isn't the case, as my posts on this forum will show.

I did hesitate with the word intellectuals but trying to be polite! If you are Labour and support Corbyn I do not think that is particularly clever. But this is old ground, ab, and the people who support Labour now would fit into the Anarchist mould - watching the Party fall into radical hands is not very clever. Do the Momentum mob want to win an election; do they care at all of the future of the Party?

Beam, I asked a Corbyn supporter in this forum that question, she said her principles were more important , so she would rather lose an election than consider any compromise . I would not.

Well that wish will come true and what good are principles to the poor and oppressed buried in the dust of defeat.

Beam, who could say to a homeless person - I am sorry you are homeless and I did speak out for you but could do no more because my principles are more important to me than you sleeping on the street . This I csnnot understand

About the Trades Unions - in my opinion they no longer represent the "Trades". There are two huge public sector unions that dominate the TUC. Their leaders despise the private sector, business and profit - even though it's the profits from the private sector that pay for public services.
My children & their fellow workers in the private sector do not have anything like the term & conditions or wage levels & security enjoyed in the public sector - yet the unions do not seem bothered by these differences in treatment. Try getting a job where I live in Yorkshire - it's minimum wage, shift working without shift allowances, call-centre conditions like a battery farm - unless you're in the public sector.
I know how fortunate I was to work in the public sector and during my working life I was a local steward, branch secretary and conference delegate. In those days there were many strong private sector unions - but they seem to have disappeared. All the TUC do now is demand more money for the public sector - do they expect the private sector employees to pay for it?

I also think it is time the unions updated themselves - possibly into a sort of insurance that anyone can buy which would give them access to help re employment law and education re negotiating and dealing with difficult work situations. This may mean that an insurer would suggest organising a strike but they are far more likely to use first mediation and then the law.

Insurance could also cover people working on their own or in jobs currently not covered by unions.

Good grief, Corbyn has been given a minus 56 rating in Scotland

That's given me the giggles, ab. How low can you go?

Minus 100 Beam I suppose bet the one labour MP there is rather worried, poor man

Perhaps it will make Labour realise things have changed and they need to work with other parties. ... and of course it has made AB very happy.