Labour now

So why does Mandelson feel he has to work to undermine him every day? Perhaps you ought to have a word and tell him to save his energy for something more important.

This is Labour now. This is what Labour MPs, members and voters should be fighting for - not undermining Corbyn.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/debbie-abrahams/dangerous-new-changes-planned-to-force-sick-people-into-work-or-into-poverty

Anniebach Sorry not to reply straight away, I got called away to eat by husband's signature poached eggs on toast.
I suppose I am afraid that a more centrist leader would not want those things either. They didn't build any council houses last time, and didn't stop the right to buy.
I couldn't vote for a leader who had supported the benefits cap for instance.

llovecheese, hope you enjoyed the eggs.

Thank you for replying , do you think Corbyn will win the next general election ?

Jen sorry but you are doing your utmost to support the conservative government force sick people back to work. The same to any Corbyn supporter who would rather hang onto Corbyn and lose the general election .

Your link brought up poor old Daniel again, think on this, the film failed to win the top award

Anniebach I think he had a chance before the PLP called the vote of no confidence. The last two leaders were more centrist and they didn't win the elections either. Honestly, it is not that I think "Corbyn or nobody" it's just that I agree with his policies. I understand that compromises have to be made but things like agreeing with austerity or not opposing the benefits cap are too much of a compromise for my liking.

Again thank you llovecheese, so you don't think he can win ?

Words are cheap though, aren't they? Where's the money coming from the fund all these policies? (Please don't say you're another believer in PQE!)

Anniebach I think if the others got behind him and helped him instead of constantly undermining him then yes, I think he could. But he needs help from the rest of the party to do so.
I have to go and do a bit of work now, so will come back later.
(the eggs were delicious)

annie Have you actually seen 'I, Daniel Blake'? I have and I don't think it's a brilliant film, certainly not the kind which wins top awards. Nevertheless, it's realistic and anybody who thinks it isn't and doesn't have a strong message, really doesn't understand how the benefit system works and how it affects people's lives. I don't see the point of your comment.

As for Debbie Abrahams...

I expect you know she's a Fabian and is often criticised for being too right-wing. She's also somebody who has worked in 'proper jobs' and knows what she's talking about.

If you find her too left-wing, I really wonder what you do believe in. What's wrong with what she's written?

What's wrong with PQE Ana?

durhamjen

Your link to the Independent at 13.35 is in fact pretty fair and indeed mirrors in so many areas what 'some' posters have repeatedly said re Labour.

Your immediate post of 13.39 however shows extracts copied from that link but you only pick out the bits you feel make your case.

The link also says :-

"Rather than being shy of controversy, Corbyn must actively court it if our movement is to succeed. Throughout these by-elections, he failed to do that "

"The truth is that the fight to win the country from the hands of Theresa May's Conservatives would be no easy task for any Labour leader, especially just after the controversial Brexit vote. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you ."

"This loss in Copeland cannot – and should not – be understated, however. For a governing party to gain a constituency from the sitting opposition at a time when the country is in crisis over Brexit and the NHS is being decimated is evidently worrying. Just as Corbyn's opponents offer Corbyn alone as the reason for Labour's defeat, it would be wrong of me as a supporter to offer everything but Corbyn as the reason for Labour's defeat"

".The decline in Labour support in these areas did not start when Jeremy Corbyn was elected Labour leader; it started when a New Labour project took hold of our party and decided to ignore working class communities across the country. The fragility of Labour's core vote in Scotland and the North was an issue long before Corbyn arrived as an easy scapegoat for the existential crisis that we face as a party."

I agree with all that your link says.

However what it does not say is why does Corbyn have such an awful polling figure etc. It does not accept that since Corbyn became Leader of the Labour Party things have declined even more.

Am. I correct in thinking the article is basically saying Labour were on the ropes due it's own making but Corbyn promised something new but has not carried it through. He must toughen up.

An example would be he was Anti Nuclear, Anti Trident but he has let his core Labour Member Voter/Momentum down by not sticking to his word. He is showing weakness and must be a stronger Leader who must 'impose' his views on the PLP and Labour Party.

Daphne, no idea what you are on about sorry, I think you just enjoy posting and pounce without thinking

POGS, I only picked out one comment, assuming that anyone who wanted to could look at the link for themselves. They don't need to any more, though, do they?

Annie doesn't believe in anything. All she wants to do is get rid of Corbyn. Nobody to put in his place. No other policies to replace his.

" As a former Public Health consultant who researched into the health effects of work and worklessness, I agree that some work is good for health, but I don’t agree with the Government’s flawed thinking underpinning this: that it’s OK for people to return to work when they are still not fit, because it may help. This is not just unsound, it’s dangerous.

The scapegoating of disabled people, which includes people with physical or mental impairments and long-term health conditions as defined under the 2010 Equality Act, has been a hallmark of this Government and the previous Coalition. But even the conclusion of the United Nations inquiry that the UK Government has been responsible for ‘grave…systematic violations’ of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities since 2010, has been met with Government stonewalling.

It is already well established that disabled people are twice as likely to live in poverty as non-disabled people as a result of the extra costs associated with their disability. Currently 4.2 million disabled people live in poverty and I have been informed from unpublished analysis by an Economic and Social Research Council research project that this is getting worse. "

From Debbie Abrahams' article. Obviously Annie just looked at the picture, thought Daniel Blake and stopped reading. Such a shame. I would have thought that she could support Debbie Abrahams in her work.

Jen you are as right about me as you are with your belief Corbyn can win an election.

Why would I want to replace policies I believe in, try this Jen it is not the policies, there are many who share them, it is Corbyn who hasn't a cats chance in hell of carry them out and this doesn't trouble him , and you who bang on daily about these policies are content with this .

Yesterday you accused me of being a hypocrite , surely this is your cap, to keep attacking a government but refusing to accept hanging onto Corbyn makes this government stronger. Forget blogs Jen, get out in the real world, tell those in food banks how you care about them but your principles are more important to you than their, hunger, humiliation and shame which they should not feel but do.

Stop lecturing me , think on your own hypocrisy

Correct Jen I saw poor old Daniel, thought - here we go again and didn't read the link.

Try it, Annie, you might agree with it. She's someone who could replace Corbyn, as you have no idea who you want, just who you don't want.
Or are you only capable of looking at pictures and reading what you want into them?
Does it matter that I, Daniel Blake didn't win certain awards? I am sure that the cast and crew are quite happy with winning the Palm D'Or and the other awards. Best British film is quite a good accolade.

I was out in the real world this morning, Annie, helping people, not being hypocritical.

How do you intend getting rid of Corbyn?

Some very interesting comments. Shame about the bickering! So should a leader of a political party adopt policies which will bring electoral victory or stick to his party's values or stick to his own beliefs? This is not a comment aimed at Jeremy. (Though I do not think he has a cat in Hells chance of winning any general election)!

I'm astounded. You really should read the link, annie, and then tell us what you disagree with. IMHO Debbie Abrahams is one of the most mature and realistic MPs of any party. She doesn't yet have that much experience as an MP, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if she were to stand for party leader in the future. I really do wonder what your principles are.

And if you have time, go and see 'I, Daniel Blake'.

Jen, surprise for you, I can manage to do more than look at pictures , not in yourLeague as you are a teacher but enough to get me through life , you have taken the gold medal for the most smug post ever. Proud?

Daphne, sorry I can't read the link I only look at pictures, this is how we uneducated get by.

Oh and Daphne, one of my principles is never put down those who don't equal your intellectual capabilities