Retiring judge warns women who get drunk

LPS I agree with you, we need to prevent rapists from raping... But, in the meantime, let's offer sound advice to women re keeping themselves safe.. Don't you think?

To improve society you have to name the problem, surely?

And now we're back to the perfect world.........

Thanks for clearing that up Iam, that adds context.

I still disagree with her comments, it's not up to women to prevent rape, we need to prevent rapists from raping.

This was not Judge Kushner's 'retirement speech' lumpyprincess. It was a speech she made at the end of a rape trial. It was her final criminal trial. judge Kushner has an excellent reputation in criminal and family courts as a compassionate, brilliant Judge. Her speech put full responsibility on the rapist, she sentenced him to six years. Her comments about the sad fact that some perpetrators take advantage of women who are the worse for drink are true. I hope my daughters understood/understand the this because I want keeping safe to be their priority.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that advising young women not to get legless is anything but common sense?

Of course it is the rapist who is to blame when a woman is raped but if it is possible to prevent the rape in the first place, isn't that better?

"I think we need to get to the root of the reasons behind rape, why do men attack and rape women and get away with it so often?"

I think the judge would agree with that and most thinking people; but until that nirvana arrives she was trying to encourage young women to be careful how much they drink. She has presided over many of these sad cases and presumably wanted to try and contribute to the protection of these young women from her wealth of experience.

Getting to the root of it all is a long term project and the protection of these young women cannot wait for that hoped for understanding.

We can work towards that understanding whilst at the same time trying to protect young women form harm by giving them sound advice.

Agreed Nina it's called common sense.

The word blame is not the issue here - we all know who is to blame - it is the rapist. And the judge made that clear.

I admire her for using her experience of these cases to try and persuade people (especially young people) not to get drunk and increase their vulnerability and the risk of bad things happening. A wise message.

We all take precautions against bad things happening - we try to avoid our bank card PINs being stolen by covering up the keypad when we enter it. That does not mean that if it were stolen then we are to blame - clearly the thief is to blame. Is it then wrong to advise someone to take that precaution to render themselves less vulnerable? Are we implying that it is their fault if they get their PIN stolen because they did not take that precaution? I do not think so.

I think that taking the precaution of not getting legless in order not to be vulnerable to many bad things makes perfect sense.

I know what your saying Chewbacca but I think we need to get to the root of the reasons behind rape, why do men attack and rape women and get away with it so often? Why is the conviction rate so low? Why don't women report? I don't think that this judge has contributed anything at all and I think that her comments may be harmful to any woman waking up tomorrow who has been attacked but didn't follow The Rules.

...or walking alone, late at night, in a lonely and unlit area?

Is what the judge said worse than, say, a warning to young women that hitch-hiking alone is risky? It doesn't seem so to me.

But those women were not the ones that the judge was referring to in this particular instance LSP. She was particularly referring to women who were raped, whilst they were heavily under the influence of alcohol.

Judge Kushner's plea to women to protect themselves was strongly - but carefully - worded: she was not blaming them for an attack, but warning them that when drunk they're more vulnerable. That's common sense is it not?

The young girl in the case was aware of what was happening to her however. According to the BBC a witness heard the teenager, who had been drinking lager and vodka as well as inhaling the party drug amyl nitrite, begging the perpetrator to stop.

It's putting women's behaviour up for discussion (apologies more thinky typing!) without applying any critical thinking as to why women are raped.

Most women are attacked by people they know, most don't report as they don't expect to be believed.

Well said Judge,common sense in my opinion,no case to answer .

NOBODY is blaming the victims! Not one single person, including the judge, has blamed the victim of the assaults. What has been said, over and over again, is that women (and men, for that matter), put themselves in a more perilous and vulnerable position if they have so much to drink that they are unaware of their surroundings and are unable to protect themselves.

I think it was her retirement speech Ginny, that's what I mean when I say she had an opportunity to say something important. We all have to live in this imperfect world but if we want it to improve then we have to tackle the problems not just blame the victims.

I feel that this will prevent people from coming forward, I don't believe that it will in anyway prevent a single woman from being raped if that makes sense? Sorry, typing as I'm thinking!

That's just it Ginny, the judge went to great lengths to explain that she was not blaming the victims, and she was trying to remind them of the perils and dangers that they exposed themselves to when they were very drunk. But when we have the utopian world where all predators (male and female) will have a handy little crib sheet of "do's and don'ts when out and about"; cautionary words of wisdom will be unnecessary.

It's not just sexual assault and the trauma that follows. In our town last year, a young woman left a nightclub so drunk she couldn't walk. It was on CCTV. A man offered to assist her and the next day she was reported missing. He'd taken her to his house, raped and strangled her.
Her life ended, her parents life ruined, the town living in fear. Is your life worth the risk?

LSP where did judge Kushner blame the woman?

'It doesn't matter how drunk you are?' Oh but it does. Anyone, man or wpman who gets so drunk that they don't know where they are or who they're with, is placing themselves in a very vulnerable situation in which all manner of bad things may happen, not only rape.

So no, it's not enough to preach to men to leave those women alone, because the women are taking unnecessary risks and some men will take advantage of that. Note I said some men.

The thing is this message isn't new, we are always telling women this, decade after decade, century after century. She had a platform and she could have chosen to say something important, not just women don't get drunk.

If we want the world to be safer then we have to start looking at who is harming people instead of blaming the victims of their crimes.

LUMPY SPACED PRINCESS I found your post very clever!