Scottish Referendum Autumn 2018 - Spring 2019

Scotland was exporting electricity to England virtually all of the time.
I think there is little doubt that Scotland, regardless of the Longannet shutdown, is or soon will be a massive over-producer of electricity.
Is there any reason why Scotland should not still supply electricity to England? Any ideas what would happen to the huge surplus produced otherwise?
or whisky?

NS said there wouldn't be another referendum until the Scottish people decide.
Is she proposing a referendum on whether or not to hold another independence referendum?

How long have you lived in Scotland paddyann?

Adding to what Ankers posted:

The Netherlands had 2,200 wind turbines a year ago which is enough to fuel 2.4 million households (the same number of households as the total in Scotland).
[[http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/on-target-the-netherlands-now-has-2200-wind-turbines/}}

I'm not sure how one turbine can fuel one city.

NS said there wouldn't be another referendum until the Scottish people decide. I guess she meant not until the SNP MSPs decide. Just a slip of the tongue I suppose.

I've just come from meeting a group of friends, about ten of us, and not one of us, either pro-or-anti-independence, English or Scots, wanted Indyref2. Everyone said they want a period of stability and to not be confronted with all the political arguments again.

We've got Referendum Fatigue, I think.

and for the record I have just trawled through a multitude of pages of Police Scotland reports on Independence Rallies and there was NOT ONE where pubic disorder was mentioned
(My bold)

I should hope not too!!

Thank you Gill. As you can tell I feel very strongly about this. I am a Liberal Democrat and I know that Tim Farron and Willie Rennie will campaign against this but I wish I knew what else we can do.

Varian you have summed the whole situation up eloquently and succinctly to my mind. It all goes back to the vanity of David Cameron, and I used to flinch every time he hopped on a plane and stood hectoring the Scottish Electorate; I always felt a few more undecided voters swung towards independence when he did that. This whole breaking away from Europe and potential break up of the United Kingdom is a TRAGEDY ( not just you can use shouty capitals paddyann). As a first generation Scot, with a very very long and proud Scottish heritage, I am saddened by this situation, and I wonder how my uncles and great uncles, proud Scots all, who died in the First and Second World Wars, fighting in the British Army albeit in Scottish regiments, would feel about this debacle?Oh, and just to aggravte you even more paddyann your electricity and wind power claims are bonkers and almost laughable, whiff of desperation methinks?

So are you suggesting that the hooligans we encountered in Dumfries were a figment of my imagination paddyann? Is it possible that Police Scotland have a particularly high tolerance level when it comes to pubic offences (below the belt, I know but your own words). Knowing what we know now about "police reports" (Hillsborough, the miners strike etc.) I would be reluctant to take their reports as gospel anyway.

Singing and beating drums is not an offence when carried out in a concert hall, but when it is carried out by hundreds of flag waving, face painted yobs in an intimidating manner who were deliberately bused into the middle peaceful family day out it is a very different matter.

paddyann, you need to check out what you write. Not just lift things from all sorts of places, while having little idea if what you are passing on is correct.

I am sorry to tell you padyann that if you are representative of people you call "English Scots" you are doing them no service.

I am reminded of the shouty protestations of brainwashed converts to some fundamentalist religious cult.

nobody is telling you you're a "foreigner in your own country" In Scotland we have CIVIC nationalism its not blood and earth nationalism ,and for the record I have just trawled through a multitude of pages of Police Scotland reports on Independence Rallies and there was NOT ONE where pubic disorder was mentioned ..apart from the one that had to be cancelled because tha ORANGE ORDER published their intent to demonstate at the same place and time and the day AFTER the vote when 11 UNIONISTS were arrested for causing trouble,burning Saltires and harrassing passers by ,I'm sorry your old lady was hassled by someone on a stand in Ayr ..but she should have taken her complaint to both the police and the SNP ,When there was a final rally before the vote and the numbers were expected to be in the tens of thousands the Chief constable told the BBC that "any idea of public disorder was ridiculous"That there had not been any trouble at any rally or march.When did singing and beating drums become an offence

I believe that in 2014 David Cameron was recklessly irresponsible when he allowed the first Scottish Indyref to be run the way it was. It looked to me as if he was bending over backwards to help the separatists for selfish party political reasons – he knew the SNP were able to damage the Labour Party.

He allowed them to choose the date - Bannockburn anniversary and more significantly the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow where Scottish athletes wore a Saltire, not a Union Jack.

He allowed them to choose the franchise – including sixteen year olds (which I actually do not object to in principle but it certainly helped the separatists and was not allowed in the EU referendum). People who came from elsewhere but happened to be living in Scotland, perhaps for a very short time were enfranchised but people like me, born and brought up in Scotland but living in another part of the UK, were disenfranchised.

He allowed them to choose the question. “Should Scotland be an independent country?” giving the SNP the huge advantage of being able to campaign for “Yes”. Two years later when Cameron wanted to ask the British people “Should the UK remain in the EU?”, this was disallowed by the Electoral Commission which ruled that it would give the Remain side the unfair advantage of the answer “Yes”. Where was the Electoral Commission when we needed it in 2014?

He allowed the result to rest on a bare majority of those who turned out on a single day. Constitutional change should never happen without a substantial (perhaps two thirds) majority for change.

I am utterly horrified at the prospect of Brexit, and to compound it with the threat of Scexit is quite appalling.

Nationalism is a corruption of patriotism, based on cultivating grievances and scapegoating the “others”. It causes bitter divisions which are hard to heal.

We must campaign to stop this happening and if it ever does happen not allow the nationalists to enjoy the unfair advantages they had the last time. The question, if it has to be asked, should be put the other way round “Should Scotland Remain in the UK?”. I would like to be consulted, as I’m sure would many many other Scots who are happy to be British. We do not want to be told by the SNP that we are now foreigners in our own country.

I presume a country's application to join the EU would need the unanimous agreement of all other member countries. I understand that Spain may block Scotland's entry were it ever to apply as an independent country because the Spanish government does not want any separatist movements to be encouraged in Spain.

And that includes what I drink? ???

population of scottish cities
www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usscotfax/geography/townscities.html

from a wind turbine
1 megawatt powers 550 homes so say 1000 people?

The giant ones currently do 6 megawatts. So approx 6000 people. Absolutely nowhere near enough to power a scottish city, as far as I know.

My figures may be a little out - people are more than welcome to check them out.

And another from a Google link, 2015:

"Scotch Whisky accounts for around a quarter of UK food and drink exports."

Thankyou MawBroon. I hope others will read this post and believe what the Icelandic Foreign Minister, and others, are saying. I hope the leaders of the SNP believe it too.
As for rants only being rants when they're something we disagree with I think that's a bit disingenuous. "Shouty capitals" are clearly written rants but I would prefer that than having them shouted in my face - as has happened - or being sneered at for "not bothering to vote" (in the EU Ref) which I did (Remain) but was not prepared to disclose what was, after all, a secret ballot. Surely writing "won" in capitals and inverted commas also indicates a rant and the implication that the No voters hadn't won? The No voters did win.
Scotland returned 56 MPs to Westminster. My belief is that they did that because having got the Independence Referendum out of the way they hoped their MPs would do the job they were elected to do - represent their constituents - rather than having independence as their only interest. There is no support for the Tories here in Scotland and the Labour Party is in disarray, so many people feel they have no alternative but to vote SNP.
The saddest thing is that whatever way another Independence Referendum goes Scotland has been irreparably divided. If Independence is gained we are in for years of uncertainty. If we remain part of the UK the SNP and its followers will refuse to accept it and will simply wait for another opportunity to raise the issue.
As for what we pay into the UK - what about the Barnett formula standing currently (from memory) at £3m a week?
I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant. Please read it as coming from someone who is genuinely saddened by what is happening in Scotland.

FarNorth if someone posts in capitals (ie shouting at other posters) in one long paragraph with scarcely any punctuation I think a fair assessment of the post would be rant

Rant: Definition - 'speak or shout at length in an impassioned way'
Synonym: tirade, diatribe, harangue, broadside, onslaught

Well, here are some calculations. www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/wind/calculation-of-wind-power/ I haven't read it in detail (too much else to do today) but someone who can follow the maths may be able to answer the question.

I suspect it all depends on the size of the wind turbine, the surfave area of the blades, and how windy it is in the situation for what proportion of the time.

Could a single wind turbine power a whole Scottish city?

I am not sure I am unerstanding your post correctly.

If I am, can you tell me where on earth you got this idea from?

Yes. Only 2 areas our of the whole of Scotland voted for independence last time : Dundee and Strathclyde. Wonder why??

Perhaps the regions where the majority vote to no to independence could stay in the UK and the regions that vote yes to independence could.....well, be independent?
Just a thought.

ANOTHER reason Westminster want to hang onto Scotland?

I’ve extracted much of this from a blog titled ‘Scotland-England Electricity Transfers and The Perfect Storm’ posted on March 10, 2017 by Euan Mearns. His purpose is more complex and I think wider than mine here. He certainly knows and understands far more, technically, than I do. Part of it seems to be to expose massive problems with French Nuclear such as the fact that they had to shut down 20 of their 58 reactors because of safety concerns (the ‘Perfect Storm’]. I do sympathise with anti-Nuclear arguments but it’s not my purpose here which is to point up the strength of the Scottish economy including energy production, on the way to independence, thus my headline. Here’s how Euan opens his report:

‘In January this year [2017] a perfect storm gathered around European, UK and Scottish electricity supplies. But the lights stayed on, in the UK at least. This is the first of two posts on this topic. Here, I take a quick look at the electricity transfers between Scotland and England since this was the first big test for the system since the closure of the 2.4 GW Longannet Coal Power Station in March 2016.’

Returning to my theme, here’s what Euan had to say about Scotland – England Electricity Transfers as published by National Grid for January and February 2016 before the 2.4 GW Longannet coal fired power station in Scotland closed.

‘The key observations from January-February 2016 are:

Scotland was exporting electricity to England virtually all of the time.
There were 5 occasions when Scotland briefly imported a small amount that I would speculate is probably out of grid balancing convenience.
Maximum exports of 3.5 GW occurred at times of high wind and this effectively marks the de-rated capacity of inter-connectors between Scotland and England.’

Now it’s clear that Euan doesn’t think Scotland, post-Longannet, can continue to export power in the same way as in 2016. This is where we part. I’ve already posted a number of articles demonstrating massive current renewables-based over-production and evidence of imminent new projects to come online and ensure reliability regardless of onshore wind levels. Here are some:

‘Wind farms powered 4 million Scottish homes last month’ and there are only 2.4 million ‘households’ in Scotland

The potential for Scottish Wind Power is even greater than we thought. Could a single wind turbine power a whole Scottish city?

A second ‘biggest in the world’ for Scotland’s renewable energy sector

‘The Biggest in the World!’ 270 tidal energy turbines to be installed to provide sustainable power to Scotland

I think there is little doubt that Scotland, regardless of the Longannet shutdown, is or soon will be a massive over-producer of electricity.

euanmearns.com/scotland-england-electricity-transfers-and-the-perfect-storm/
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In the same way that half-facts, confused motivation and misunderstanding proliferated in the EU Referendum campaign (£350 million for the NHS, ban all immigrants, bring back the blue passport, no more Brussels with our turkey etc etc) and there was clear evidence of hearts ruling heads in many quarters, the SNP (IMHO) is still attempting to make capital out of the romanticism of "Braveheart" and "Scots Wha Hae" and its own version of what lies ahead.
From today's Telegraph

"A SEPARATE Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it emerged yesterday, after Iceland warned Scotland could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) until it was independent.
Icelandic Foreign Minister ­Gud­­lau­­gur Thor Thordarson said only sovereign states could be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules. He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek ­entry any earlier, such as the ­period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.
His intervention confirms that a separate Scotland would start life outside both the UK and the EU single market. Theresa May yesterday told Prime Minister’s Questions that Scotland would be leaving the EU with or ­without independence.
It came after it was disclosed yesterday that Ms Sturgeon is considering announcing that Scotland would instead try to sign up to EFTA, three members of which are outside the EU but get single market access in return for complying with rules.
Senior Nationalist sources said an ­independent Scotland could decide whether it wanted to join the EU at a later date, perhaps after another referendum. It is thought the change would help woo the 400,000 Yes ­voters in the 2014 referendum who backed Leave last year.
SNP politicians yesterday continued to state that party policy was EU membership, but did not clarify whether an application would be made straightaway or after a period in EFTA"

IF (and it is still "if"and not "when") there is another Scottish Independence Referendum, I just hope that the full facts will be open to all and that those taking the decision do indeed vote with their heads.

I like it MawBroon Not in my name Nicola

Paddyann, no problem with public order within the yes camp ! you really are deluded. I stood in Ayr and watched one of your lot F and blind at a old lady who said no thanks to the leaflet that one of your lot was trying to push into her hand. Dont lie