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The far right and Russia

(78 Posts)
whitewave Sun 02-Apr-17 13:17:23

Just read a very interesting article about Banks - who it seemed bank rolled Brexit. He single handedly bought Brexit.

What I found fascinating and which begins to make sense with regard to the alt right and Trump who are supporters of Putin, is that looking at their political ambitions, so much of it falls in line with Putins ambitions. So I wonder whether Putin can be classed as hard right?

Farage apparently voted almost entirely in the European Parliament in the way that favoured Putinesque ambitions.

Bank it seems is now bank rolling a movement (not a political party because it would be subject to British political law). His ambition is to destroy the traditional political parties in the U.K. Particularly what he terms "Bad MPs" who characteristically are ex Oxford etc. His associates include Bannon, Farage, Gunter, Wigmore, Kassandra (Brietbart editor UK). There is no doubt that they have been playing for the long term, and much of what they want is beginning to reach fruition.

Liberal Democracy - and this includes the Tory Party is under threat.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 15:41:40

This has been obvious for ages. The terms "left" and "right" are largely irrelevant in today's politics.

Putin is not left-wing. Communism in Russia died decades ago. Putin is authoritarian and expansionist. This is more like pre WW1 power politics than anything since.

Banks has been boasting about how much he put into Brexit since before the referendum and has been saying that he was going to set up a new movement.

It was his ideas about marketing the Brexit message which won the day.

He knew that the propaganda about élites and immigration (aka cultural supremacy) would resonate with the public. Think back to all the hatred of "Tory toffs", "out of touch Oxbridge élites", "unelected Brussels bureaucrats", etc. Of course, he has a point, but the truth is that he belongs to an alternative élite which wants to take over from the establishment. He needed the working class, angry and disillusioned foot soldiers to deliver the votes, so that he could claim it's all about "democracy" and the "will of the people".

The big difference between these élites is in their social values. Again, this is more like pre WW1 politics with Conservatives and Liberals, before universal adult suffrage and the rise of the Labour Party.

If that seems familiar, it's because it's succeeded before and, if people don't watch their backs, it will succeed again.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 15:43:36

I think this was probably the article whitewave was reading:

whitewave Sun 02-Apr-17 15:56:46

Yes that's the article. I have no technological ability so thanks for that "DD"

There is also another really good article with Howard Jacobson who is just about to publish a satirical novel with a Trump character.

It was however interesting to read his opinion about how language is being dumbed down, and how intelligence is going out of fashion, how the shrunken attention span of the social media has made a virtue of bullish ignorance and incoherent simplicity. Any sign of subtlety or sophistication has become tantamount in the minds of many voters to being untrustworthy and even dangerous.

This fits very neatly into Banks and cohorts attitude towards what he sneeringly calls Bad MPs particularly the Oxbridge PPE-ers.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:03:00

Indeed! And why he sneers at academics, although Mary Beard made a good job of taking him down.

I spent a semester studying 1930s Nazi language and psychology. At the time, I thought it was a bit quaint, boffish and not very relevant, but it really concerns me that we're seeing a repeat of so many of the features of those times. I wish I still had my old notes.

TriciaF Sun 02-Apr-17 16:04:53

I'd never heard of him.
So interesting, horrifying - just shows what money can do.
And how quickly power might transfer from one kind of élite to another.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:06:32

If you've never heard of him TriciaF I'm afraid I'll have to send you to the naughty corner for not taking enough notice of my posts for months wink.

Welshwife Sun 02-Apr-17 16:06:42

I read either that article or similar - don't they want to orchestrate the next GE so that they get rid of all the anti Brexit MPs?

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:10:06

Sorry, I can't help being a school mam.

Seriously, this has all been obvious for a couple of years, but the MSM hasn't really written much about it, because the right-wing press in the UK is part of it. Maybe Trump's election has brought it all out in the open. Hopefully, the bubble will burst and the majority of people will see what's been going on.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:12:12

Yes, they do. Their main target is Labour constituencies with Remain MPs. It puts Labour in an impossible situation and is part of the reason Corbyn sits on the fence.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:14:08

The only consolation is that Ukip struggled to find enough candidates with anything like the credentials to be MPs and I suspect this new movement will be the same.

whitewave Sun 02-Apr-17 16:14:13


He is someone with whom we are unfortunately going to become all too familiar with unless he and his cohorts can be stopped. He is intent on destroying our liberal democracy, and unfortunately his plans have worked thus far. He is vastly wealthy and rather than use his vast wealth for philanthropic use, he uses it to pursue his political ambitions.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:18:54

It's not just Banks' wealth, but that of Steve Bannon and other American backers, Putin's influence and power and the use of Big Data and other propaganda methods. It's a frightening alliance.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 16:22:26

Liam Fox is a bit player in it all and it wouldn't surprise me, if he jumps ship at some stage, along with his sidekick Adam Werritty.

whitewave Sun 02-Apr-17 16:37:23

I think that the Electorial Commision have muttered about fraud etc, but Banks was totally dismissive. It would seem that there has been a huge amount of activity between the interested parties. A company calling itself "Cambridge Analytica" majority owned by the hedge fund billionaire Robert Mercer has been busy collating data on us all and uses it to target the individual voter. Mercer bankrolled Trump. Bannon was also on its payroll. They now have the ability to manipulate public opinion on a level never before seen.

This new technology has disrupted the democratic process to such an extent that theLSE warned that current laws are unable to deal with its excesses and to ensure a fair and free election or referendum. The electorial commission has admitted that it cannot limit the power of money in elections. The situation could become very dangerous and volatile.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 17:02:49

Exactly! Only the Guardian/Observer, Channel 4 and some foreign media are covering it.

People have been taken for chumps.

daphnedill Sun 02-Apr-17 17:04:17

It comes down to a battle between two warring élites.

whitewave Sun 02-Apr-17 17:07:50

Yes and the ordinary voter are the pawns to be manipulated just like Nazi Germany. We have seen it America and Brexit, their plans are coming good.

GillT57 Sun 02-Apr-17 19:49:38

God, this is frightening. Your link is a terrifying read. I knew that Banks had bankrolled UKIP/Brexit campaign and he was public in his announcements about targeting traditional Labour seats and getting UKIP in there, but I had thought that the general unpleasantness and buffoonery of the UKIP candidiates ,made that sound like a fantasy. But, it does seem as if his ambitions go beyond that. The UKIP voters have been taken for mugs and used in this monstrous campaign, what a pity the Daily Mail, Express, Sun,Telegraph won't report this. The right wing press in this country is a power to be feared, despite all of our mocking of their rubbish, too many people lap it up and believe it.

whitewave Sun 02-Apr-17 20:10:53

Banks seems to have off loaded UKIP as has Farage. It's served its purpose. Onwards and upwards to the real target, which seems to completely split our traditional liberal democratic political parties. The project is underway in America and we can see the fight going on there. Trump classed himself as a Republican, but he clearly is not as so many Republicans are now realising. The voters were targeted to deliver this, just as they have been over Brexit, I just hope that not all the right wing press will play ball, although some undoubtedly will.

varian Sun 02-Apr-17 22:56:43

Sadly nothing seems to matter more in politics than money. Whenever you see a poltical party or movement spending a lot of money ( Tories, Ukip, SNP and other nationalist parties) you should ask where is the money coming from and why?

varian Mon 03-Apr-17 10:27:03

There is a Panorama proramme tonight investigating the funding of Marine le Pen's Front National party. It should be worth watching.

whitewave Mon 03-Apr-17 10:33:34

Yes saw that. There is always the issue of "dark money" the donors cover their tracks very successfully , just as they did funding Brexit and further back the likes of Moseley

Caro1954 Mon 03-Apr-17 10:34:28

What a terrifying situation. But Thankyou all for your posts and for clarifying some things I was, frankly, too scared to delve into. I can't keep hiding my head in the sand ...

radicalnan Mon 03-Apr-17 10:46:29

It was I thought, common knowledge Banks hasn't been backwards at coming forwards......there is also Soros...they all seem to be the new politicos and why not?

I don't like any of them but new money v old money, it is the same thing MONEY........

I don't think the far right is any more of a worry than the far left.

People are talking about 'populism' as if that is a bad thing it is the basis of democracy, what appeals to most people is popular.

Trump does seem to have a way of reaching out to the masses but if you look at what he has done, it is just the same stuff Obama was up to, and saint Hilary, they just did it with more codified language than he does.

It is a the same shitty game, there really are no choices. The Green party and Independents are just not wordly wise enough to get their feet in the door politically.

The problem is, that people vote at elections but most of the time are pretty apathetic, so by the time the election comes along the only choices we have are the rich buggers, the experts all talk nonsense, no one can really predict anything, we create our realities as we go a long.

I find that the more courses I study the more schools of thought the are. Everything is a social construct, the media and the main players give us options but basically it is all about power, money and control.