V.A.T, in school fees

I haven't been following this thread, so at the risk of driving someone mad. Isn't the supply of education that is charged at the point of supply exempt?

All education including vocational training and tutoring is VAT free at the moment.

No there is a distinction * trish* education which is free at the point of supply is outside the scope of VAT. That supplied by say a fee paying school is exempt, as is private tutoring by a sole provider.

So is Labour proposing that Fee paying schools should start to charge VAT?

They are exempt at the moment as a result of their charitable status. Is Labour proposing to take that status away?

Can of worms there!!

There must be an easier way of providing universal free meals to tinies.

Do you not read replies, either, Annie?
Hard to believe you started this thread about Corbyn THINKING of applying VAT to fees for private schools. NOBODY avoids paying VAT on that yet, because it is not charged. NOBODY can avoid paying VAT on private tuition because it isn't charged.
SOMEBODY, it might even have been you, suggested that if VAT were to be charged on private school fees it should be charged on private tuition, too.
That's all. Nobody is avoiding paying VAT - yet.

I wonder if EU rules will apply to that, too, whitewave.
I bet that when the next election comes round, the government will say it will reduce VAT. My bet is on 15%.
They will assume that people will have forgotten that they put it up to 20% from 17.5% in 2011, having promised in their manifesto that they would not.
Unfortunately, most people will have forgotten.

Corbyn knows he will be on a hiding to nothing by suggesting taking away their charitable service. Many people who pay school fees run businesses and understand about VAT being put on services. They are paying for added value for their dear little offspring, so should understand that.
It shows on here that some people don't.
50% of the population have been paying VAT on sanitary wear for most of their lives, but not complained about that until lately. What's wrong with paying it to get your children or grandchildren social advantage or value?

Not an answer to the question. Just curious, would it be fair to remove charitable status from schools?

I've never understood why private or public schools still have charitable status. They don't do much for it.

There would be a huge fight - can you imagine!!!

Yes, it would be quite a huge fight, I can't imagine opening such.

Education is deemed as a necessity and not a luxury, that is probably how historically the VAT exemption came about.
Someone asked if independent schools have to pay VAT themselves. Yes, they do and they cannot claim any back. In the big picture of things, that figure amounts to about 20% of their expenditure.

There must be an easier way of providing universal free meals to tinies
I think it is school meals to all school pupils, not just primary.

And yes, there is, put up general taxation.
That is a more honest way to go about it.

This is just as bad as increasing business rates to pay for social care and risking the folding of many small businesses.

If you have a business, you can only claim VAT back if you charge it to your customers in the first place.
You could always try that, Lillie. Education is a necessity, but not private school education.

They have charitable status because they are supposed to offer bursaries and scholarships to pupils whose parents could not normally afford the fees, collaborate with local state schools to benefit state school pupils etc.
87% of ISC schools are in mutually beneficial partnerships with state schools and local communities, sharing expertise, best practice and facilities to the benefit of children in all the schools involved

If their charitable status is removed why would they bother to offer scholarships or bursaries or collaborate with state schools? Many would fold anyway, if VAT was charged on fees. Those children whose parents could not afford the extra cost would then need places at state schools which would need to expand at a cost to the taxpayer and probably would cause overcrowding and larger class sizes.

It sounds like a lose, lose situation to me.
The whole idea is a simplistic one which just hasn't been thought through and would cause far more problems in the long-term.

^There is a scheme to put ex-sevicemen and women into schools, to fast-track them.
I don't think they last very long^
I'm not sure why they wouldn't last very long - this is what quite a few of ex-service people have traditionally done and have become successful teachers including people we know.

their dear little offspring,
Surely everyone's 'offspring' are dear to them?

Well, the more expensive schools might suffer a bit, although most of their very wealthy customers could probably afford the increase in fees. The knock-on effect might be that some of their pupils would move to cheaper independent schools of which there are many. In that case, only the children at the bottom of the pile, whose parents are already struggling to pay, would be badly hit and move to state schools.

Certainly in the 70s you could train as a teacher if you just had 5 good 'O' levels (not necessarily including maths) - I know because a friend of mine did it as a mature student.

Did you have a degree and maths qualifications before you qualified as a teacher, durhamjen?

And is private tutoring a necessity Jen?

?? Well my daughter would definately say yes as the tutoring for dyslexic children was withdrawn because of the cuts.

Well, teacher training courses were only two years in the 1960s, in fact I think right up until the 1980s although I think grammar/high school teachers had to have a degree.
My friend started teaching after qualifying at age 19 in 1966.

Not all children who receive private tutoring are dyslectic

Surely if this vat is to be claimed the money would be better spent on teaching children with learning difficulties than feeding obese state school children