V.A.T, in school fees

If it's the school I'm thinking of, trisher, I did supply there for a few weeks in the late 1980s, when we moved back to Hull.
I agree that he did really well for himself.
Not surprised you know where to find wooden spoons in bulk, Annie.

dd I was making the assumption that VAT was not charged in general on fees for education - in any event, the schools with charitable status get a variety of tax breaks including very reduced business rates and some income tax concessions. Don't you just love the fact that the children of incredibly rich British people and the children of overseas dictators/oligarchs/billionaires benefit from these advantages through the fees being less that they would otherwise be? Oh and as for the facilities, I forgot 18 hole golf courses and the stables - silly me

I think it s crackpot idea which will alienate voters the Labour Party needs to ever win an election. But I accept for Corbyn and many of his supporters losing an election is better than compromise, this means no compromise no hope for the homeless, the vunerable, I would choose compromise and helping the homeless and the vunerable,

Just as Blair did, he compromised, we got a better NHS, education improved, the minimum wage, sure start, human rights act, tax credits etc. Didn't damage him with middle England , he won three elections. It has to be inclusive not exclusive , not give all to the jams and sod the vunerable and not sod the jams and give to the vunerable, the jams vote too.

That's the point Rigby. Independent schools fall over themselves to attract pupils (especially from overseas) and they don't do it by offering brilliant teaching. If you look at their brochures, they are very keen to promote their facilities, so that the actual teaching is almost an add-on. I agree with you that these amazing facilities should not be subsidised by the taxpayer for the tiny percentage of pupils who attend them.

Nearly all independent schools have charitable status.

Could somebody with knowledge of VAT please explain a couple of things?

Does charitable status mean that schools don't pay VAT on anything they buy - or is it no different from any VAT registered business?

Is the intention to charge VAT on the total fees? Would the parents of overseas students be able to claim an exemption, as they can with other tax-free purchases? I have no idea how that works.

Are there any other benefits (other than VAT) from being a charity rather than a commercial business?

I'm fairly clueless about how VAT works :-(

ab yes I agree that there are many different types of independent schools so costs vary. But all the ones that have charitable status ( no idea if that's all?) should lose it IMO. I'd be interested to know if that would bring in more money to the Exchequer than charging VAT on fees. I live in a area with some very well known independents. The ones that have boarding facilities are, in particular, incredibly opulent in their facilities - theatres , concert halls, sports halls, swimming pools, cricket, tennis, rugby and large grounds and beautiful buildings. Their IT facilities and labs are incredible - it just seems wrong to me that their charitable status helps to fund these really amazing facilities thus denying tax revenue that could go to state schools for some real basics like enough books/ computers/teachers. My local MP and minor royals are regularly photographed in my local paper opening some new facility or other at one of the local independents.

I agree with you Rigby46. I was doing a "back of an envelope" calculation about the primary school my son used to attend.

There are 210 pupils and I know that when my son was there, there were only three pupils who had free school meals. There might be more now and there might have been a few others, whose parents were really struggling. I know the three pupils in receipt of free school meals and none of them were starving.

If FSM were introduced for all pupils, the school would receive about £80,000 a year. Instead of subsidising pupils, most of whose parents could well afford to feed their children, the school could have employed extra teachers, teaching assistants, bought new books or loads of other things. The school is a voluntary aided C of E school, so the diocese pays for maintenance of the buildings. Better still, the money could be allocated to schools with far greater needs than that school.

Rigby, schools are so different, the boarding school here is well known but it isn't Eaton this is why one cost does not apply to all. There was a head of a small school interviewed a few days ago, her school fees are nine thousand .

I think this charging vat is wrong , doubt it would cause sleepless night for parents with children at Eaton but could for parents at that heads school.

The charitable status is so wrong and I sgree thst money could be used for school repairs and supplies, not feeding every child in every state school,

ab a girls independent day school fairly near me charges £16000 a year from year 7-13. On top of that is uniform, lunches, travel, trips and any extra curricular activities such as music. Teachers ar independent schools are also members of the Teachers Pension Scheme which means that these schools don't have to worry about any pension risks like other 'businesses' as the Government underwrites it.

But back to the OP - I think the proposed policy is utter madness. Charitable status should be stripped from all independent schools and any money coming back into the Exchequer should be ring fenced for the benefit of all state schools - they could start on those schools that are in urgent need of repairs. In some areas, more free school meals might be relevant

Interesting answer.

GG, I was not referring to you, truth is I choose not even to think about you, I was referring to someone who posted something on this thread .

So I will now place you back ignore, take care.

P.S. Is you need an address where you can buy wooden spoons in bulk do ask

Dear, oh dear, oh dear a poster talks of work in a family business and this talk smacks of communism - really? What will we hear next just so attacks on the current Labour Party leader can be made. Twisted logic isn't even close.

Nobody mocked you for being dyslexic AB. I know I asked when (out of interest from my own experience) you were diagnosed and what was done for you but you chose, as is your right, not to answer.

Trisher I am sure your parents had time to sit, I remember corner shops where the owners came into the shop to serve from their living quarters. The corner shop my friends run is a newsagents, post office, off licence, sandwich bar and groceries, they both work in there all day and work extremely hard, times have moved on

As to your opinions on my posts ? Apart from mocking me being dyslexic nothing else you say bothers me, I respect all opinions doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

As far as doctors go Anniebach if they choose to go into private practice they will either have trained as a GP or will be a specialist in a particular area both of which require them to work in the NHS whilst they obtain the required qualification. If the same restriction was placed on teachers I would see no problem, as it is they can go straight from teacher training into the private sector. Interesting enough they are then not qualified to teach in the state system because they have not completed a probationary year. I do know of someone appointed to a state school from the private sector who did his probationary year as a head teacher!

It isn't communism to say that a day working in a corner shop isn't necessarily harder than the day of a professional. I simply offered my opinion that having done both one was easier and more profitable than the other. Could you explain how that "stinks of communism" please. You were posting about how hard someone's day was and I tried to explain the difference. The problem is that you refuse to recognise anyone's opinion other than your own, even when they have more experience and knowledge. Constantly falling back on this complaint that people are "leftist" or "communist" really is bigoted.
If you are wondering why I chose the less profitable but harder option as a career, working in a shop is bloody boring and I thought I had what was then known as a vocation (is that leftist and communist?)

I went to an all girls grammar (unbelievable I know) and I hated it.

I recently read, that the average figure for private education for a child is around £156,000 (a heck of a lot more in some areas) . Times that figure by however many children you have and then try saying that you do not have to be wealthy to afford private education.

I would just be happy for my DGC to be able to get into a school within a mile or two of home.

Trisher, Tom Courtney was in a film Dr Zhivago, a film from a fictional book based on the history of the Russian revolution , spot the difference ? A film role is not real,life .

I do know the history of schooling in this country Jen. I have said they should not have charitable status . I have mixed feelings about them and I speak from the experience of being educated in a town with a girls convent and a boys boarder and from working in one.

I chose not to let my daughters go to the convent and stood firmly against my grandson sitting the entrance exam for the boys boarder.

For yesrs the Anglican priest and his wife at the boys boarder were close friends.

I went to a girls Grammer , we only mixed with boys from the boys grammer, convent girls only mixed with the boys boarder, the sec mod children the same except it was a mixed school, it was wrong, it was unfair , it was unhealthy .

I am more against Grammer schools than private schools but the far left posts have been so unpleasant , all this the state, the state, the state, A 16 hour a day isn't hard work etc, stinks of communism which is where some want to change the Labour Party to. And against free schools.

I am against parents paying vat on school fees to feed children in state schools, they pay tax so should not pay again. I know parents on benefits and I know benefit cheats who can't be arsed to cook for their children but can head for the pub at a speed.

daphne is wrong to claim the average fees are seventeen thousand , fees for eleven year old are not the same as fees for sixteen year olds.

I dislike greed and I dislike envy , I dislike the thought of a communist style state

I have said it before and I will say it again. One persons idea of "wealthy" is often very different from the next persons.

Someone on minimum wage might feel wealthy earning £8-9 per hour. Some people earn this in the blink of an eye and would think they were poor earning twice that.

As Tom Courtney went to the same school as I did and came from the working class I think he did very well out of the state system. Of course he went through when there was a huge surge of upward mobility and working class kids could make it in the arts, music and culture sections because the rich kids were all being lawyers and professionals. These days kids from private schools dominate even the arts and popular music sections. You have to wonder what can be done.

So you think private education is acceptable, do you, Annie?

The reason they have charitable status is because they were built for the poor whose perants couldn't afford educating their boys.

More I read the fsr left views here the more Tom Courtney and his grey outfit in Dr Zhivago comes to mind - up the revolution

I was talking about the insistance that my partner is wealthy, he was not/is not.
The fact is that is, he told me if VAT was put in he could not afford to send his son there.
I am not disputing free meals for families that need it, but not for everyone. I would like to see everyone get a good education but not at the expense of other parents.
Yes some parents who send their children to fee paying schools are wealthy but alot are hard working people who make sacrifices.