V.A.T, in school fees

Private schools are exempt from VAT because they are educational establishments - a category that includes vocational training colleges, universities, EFL colleges etc. How do the LP intend to define those educational establishments that they will remove from the VAT exemption and those that will remain exempt? As I've said in previous posts, VAT is a very complex tax - and complexity breeds loopholes.
Charitable status & it's zero-rated VAT is a different issue.
One poster said that school fees paid by an employer are not taxed but in fact they are - they are classed as a taxable company benefit whether or not the employer pays the fees direct or reimburses the employee, income tax is payable by that employee.
I do agree with the posters who've said that a particular tax for a particular service causes problems - trying to ensure the taxes raised match the funds needed is fraught with difficulties. Just think of road tax and the road improvement & maintenance programmes.
Instead of this divisive measure why can't the LP offer something substantial - how to tackle off-shore and other tax avoidance schemes - for example - and not just "We'll crack down on tax avoidance" but how they actually intend to recover the £40 billion they say there is in unpaid tax.

I attended a small private school from the age of 3 until I was 11 (1949-1957). I grew up in a council house in Tottenham, my father was a bus inspector and my mother worked in Lilly & Skinner. I am eternally grateful for the sacrifices they made. The neighbouring children on the White Hart Lane estate went to the council school opposite and they, like me, had school dinners. Mine cost 7/6 a week. Theirs were FREE. They even went across the road in the school holidays for free school dinners and were supervised by dinner ladies even though the school was closed. They sneaked me in with them one summer day. I remember the food was much better than the dinners I received at school. But my education was superior. We learned French from the age of 6, we visited museums, art galleries, theatres. The biggest class I attended had 10 pupils. The children were from mixed backgrounds from the publician's daughter and the advertising agent's son to the factory worker who made men's ties. I sent my eldest daughter to a similar school in 1973 in Enfield. The Labour Party closed it down along with quite a few others. Seems like they're intent on doing it again. Stifle choice and battery farm education.

As secondary school fees are from £10,000 p.a. I think you need to be earning £90.000 p.a.
I read that Mr. Platt who lost his appeal to take his child out of school for a holiday in Florida is comtemplating sending the child private. He will have no problem in getting a cheaper hol..

Fee paying Schools with charitable status do not pay council tax or VAT AND THEY SHOULD. As for free school dinners YUK. My son and I agree that school dinners[ in our cases paid for] put us off a lot of foods for life!

PS. There are millions of hard working parents who will never earn enough to send their children to private schools.

I bet he earned more than £16,000 rafichagran! Some people cannot earn enough to send their children to private school, even if they want to. 80% of children at private schools come from households with an income over £50,000, which places them in the top few percent based on income.

I don't see why it should save Labour seats. Free school meals and VAT on school fees have nothing to do with county councils.

There are only 8 Labour seats in Essex (out of 75). Ukip will possibly lose its six seats, probably to the Conservatives.

County councils are, however, responsible for school transport, which is due to go up to an annual cost of £1000 (approx) per pupil. This is a huge issue for people in more rural areas and it's possible that Conservatives (and Labour) will lose seats to Independents who are campaigning on the issue.

Totally agree Harrigran my partner worked very hard to send his son to a private school , paid taxes, so effectively paid twice, not wealthy, and if they had added VAT at the time he would not have been able to send him.
I think this is very class divisive and we could even have hard working parents of privately educated children paying for children of more wealthy parents to have a free dinner if they have chosen the state system. Make school dinners free for children who need it, but not everybody did or does.

May save a few labour council seats next month, may not

Private schools are becoming a playground for the wealthy, especially overseas pupils.

The study which the Labour Party referred to, seems to be this one:

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/6279

The conclusion was that free school meals raise the attainment by 4-8 weeks over two years for some children. The health of the children involved showed no significant improvement.

The report stated that more research was needed. However, the pilot schemes cost £12 million and it would appear that the results weren't promising enough to justify spending more money.

It was estimated that it would cost £1 billion (at 2012 prices), which represents poor value for money, as there are more effective ways of raising attainment.

The claim that school meals are "nutritious" is spurious. I've eaten thousands of school meals over the years, mainly because they're free in exchange for doing lunch duty. There is a huge variation between schools, but my general experience is that they are heavily carbohydrate-based, the vegetables are overcooked and the fruit is of poor quality. Given a choice (as pupils usually have in secondary schools), most pupils choose pasta followed by an iced bun (or similar). There is little high class protein.

The cost per pupil is about £10pw. I would rather see that money going directly to the families who need it.

Schools already receive pupil premium funding for children who receive FSM or have been in the last six years (separate from general formula funding) at the rates of £1320 for primary pupils, £935 for secondary pupils and £300 for service children.

Schools have a great deal of flexibility over how the money is spent. Pupil premium funding has been shown to raise attainment. It doesn't have to be spent only on FSM children, although schools must be accountable and demonstrate that they have closed the attainment gap between the poorest and the rest. This was a LibDem idea and was the trade-off for student fees. Nick Clegg's argument was that it was better to support poorer, younger children than subsidise wealthier students to obtain higher level qualifications.

Private schooling saves the government over £1 billion a year .

Private schools can have a charitable status because they give free and subsidised places to families who could not afford private education. This facility is there for all, you just have to do the legwork yourself and find out if you qualify.
Contributing to education is compulsory and those of us who used private education have paid twice so think it unfair to then add VAT.

Trisher, I think a 16 hour a day is hard work, you don't,

Beamsmeupscottie Of course Momentum don't run Labour. What a shame that it is not possible to have an intellectual debate about this without people posting propaganda.

I was saying just that earlier allule. I think it was because a lot of people swallowed the idea that the Conservatives could be trusted with the economy and the LP couldn't which was rubbish from both directions - as would completely the opposite belief have been.

I think I would be happier with percentages for some areas, e.g., the National Health. It is complex and really does need to be worked out before new ideas are put in place but, as I said, if you want to put VAT on school fees say so, if you want to give free school meals, say so and show us a balance (overall) budget before the election but this has a bit of a distasteful feel about it.

Your wine and window cleaner example is a good one. A countries budget is not at all like a household one; it is so much more complex.

I get annoyed with the new idea that every spending plan has to be balanced by a specific tax or saving....hypothecation?
Surely we should just see income as a total amount and decide on spending priorities separately.
I don't think "I'll cut down on the wine to pay for a window cleaner"...(or vice versa)...just decide what I can afford.

Thank you, trisher, for the school plan report. Sorry, I can't lay my hands on the reports you mention, I am not in school this week being in France, where we all know healthy, nutritious school lunches are of the best in the world!
And seeing the wonderful lunch awaiting me today only goes to show how good eating habits in school are kept for life. (Not the floppy sandwiches or greasy offerings mentioned by some on here).

Very confusing- I thought GP meant grand parent but here I discovered not but General Practitioners. Maybe using the word Doctors would have been better.

I do think private education is a service so should include VAT. But if private school fees go up too much some parents will have to transfer their children to state school making that an extra expense to the education system.

I do think saying this tax will pay for a specific thing as it never works out that way. If money is ring fenced it is often spent in a hurry in not the best way at the end of a year to sop it being lost

This only goes to show, Jayanna, what a divisive subject this is. Labour are in such a mess at the moment they will grab any old piece of policy (this has been around for years) to get a headline. The polls are showering doom on results for the LP at the local elections, so desperate times need desperate measures.

My parents ran a corner shop and I was 'a professional' (If not well-payed). I can tell you the shop made more money and although the hours were long the work was no where near as hard.

If some parents who send their children to private schools because of poor local schools and cannot afford the extra tax they will form free schools

The far left believe they will win the election because they have the largest membership number,

Gosh what a lot of issues in one thread. Charitable status of private schools, whether school meals are a good thing, whether education should be VAT free and an underlying assumption that private education is better and something to be aspired to. State schools, private schools, some are good, some are bad. Worth remembering that any old bod can set up a school and tell the parents what they want to hear.

I have nothing against free school meals. But think it is shameful to fuel class-warfare by suggesting funding it from the private school section. Labour needs to woo the middle-classes not alienate them.