V.A.T, in school fees

My granddaughter wasn't forced to eat a school dinner when the school she was at had free school meals for her age group.
She still took a packed lunch.

Same in our schools but this is different because if they eat thei dinners their work will improve .

Will this mean parents who can't pay the vat will want to,open free schools or will these be banned

Aren't you in a position to affect Labour party policy, Annie?

My grandaughter's work will not improve.
It is not an experiment in levelling down, which is what May maintained. It's a way to give all children who want it a decent school dinner.
I don't see how anyone can object to that. There are a lot of families who are having problems buying decent meals but just above the limit for free school meals.
This will not stigmatise anyone.

I have mixed feelings about the idea of free school meals for all children. I accept that the evidence is clear, children do better if they have a decent meal mid day. I'm also acutely aware because of the work I did and the fact I have relatives who are primary school teachers, that a number of children in every primary school class will have no breakfast unless they attend the breakfast club, which has to be paid for. The same group of children often have no evening meal, or something like a bag of crisps. I know, this isn't representative of the majority but this group of children are so very disadvantaged.
I know primary school teachers who make sure they have fruit, toast available for these children. On 6 year old weeping on arrival after the 9 o'clock bell, 'Ive
missed breakfast club miss, I'm starving, I've had nowt since dinner yesterday". Luckily, Miss had a banana and a jam sandwich for just this eventuality. I'm not convinced that free school meals for every child is necessary but I do feel the charitable status of independent schools should be removed. It also seems to me that teachers are good judges of where flexibility is needed and food provided where its needed. A proportion of parents are so disorganised, they don't fill in forms on time with the result their child, despite being entitled to free school dinners, doesn't get them.
I don't want to over complicate this issue, just talking from experience.

My granddaughter's school provides fruit at break times for the children. They are expected to pay 50p a week if they can, but it is not obligatory, and all children get the fruit.

If all children are entitled to free school meals, there will be no problem about parents being disorganised and not getting the forms in on time.
Another thing is that being disorganised is often an excuse for not being able to read the form. I speak from experience of teaching adults to read. Sometimes it wasn't owned up to until after all the children had left primary school.

Yes, illiteracy is an issue but so are drug and alcohol abuse, mental health problems (often go hand in hand with substance misuse). Those children live with violence, chaos and neglect sadly. This government has closed in excess of 1000 sure start centre, it's all so sad.

I think it's possibly a clever way round from stopping charitable status, which they know will be objected to.

"No child in the UK should go hungry at school. By charging VAT on private schools fees, Labour will make sure all primary school children, no matter what their background, get a healthy meal at school,” Corbyn is expected to say today.

“The next Labour government will provide all primary school children with a free school meal, invest in our schools, and make sure no child is held back because of their background.” "

Was that not May's sentiment on the doorstep of number 10?
Didn't take her long to change her mind.

Remove the charity status and increase tax on high earners but I do not agree that parents who do struggle to pay for school fees should have to pay for dinners for state school children.

I am not sure about raising a specific tax to pay for a specific need. That way lies resentment and arguments.
It would be better to just put up income tax in general.

Yes your right Jalima, I just thought taxing high earners was more fair than taxing all parents with chikdren in private education, I don't like this, it seems yet another wedge to widen class warefare.

A private school is surely part of the service industry and, as such, are liable for VAT. Presumably it is being suggested that the proceeds of that particular source of VAT would be used to provide free meals in state schools. I can't see why that is a problem - any more than ring-fencing monies for the NHS.

If it is OK for charitable status to be removed and taxes increased on high earners, why is it so terrible to charge VAT, when VAT is supposed to be charged for services?

Personally, I agree with all three measures. My understanding is that charitable status was originally given to public schools, which at that time were performing a charitable function, i.e. providing an education for poor children. Now, the vast majority of public/private schools are businesses being run for profit, not for the education of poor students.

For the poster who said such an idea (VAT on school fees) is divisive, doesn't the fact that many thousands of children are malnourished and living in insecure and sub-standard accommodation suggest that this is already a divided society and becoming more so?

My opinion is that it would be nice if, instead of oaring only about our own children and being outraged at the notion of "feeding other people's children", we cared about the welfare of all children, whether they are ours or not.

Yes it would be nice if we all cared about all children and paid more tax,

Does anybody know how charging VAT would affect overseas parents? Would they be exempt?

NUT supports Corbyn's idea.

Private schools should cease to be classed as charities.

I can see no reason why VAT might not be chargeable on school fees as on so many goods and services.

The evidence of the positive effect of free school meals on children in deprived areas is clear; but there is no evidence that is has any impact in more affluent areas.

I'm not sure why parents of children in private schools should be specifically targeted for this initiative. Feels a bit like a political gimmick. It's not as though those parents pay less income tax or other taxes than everyone else, and in paying for private education they are perhaps taking a bit of the strain off state schools. I don't say they should be given any particular credit for that, but to specifically tax them to pay for a new state scheme benefit doesn't feel right.. But as a more general point, whether private school fees should be vat exempt is another issue. I don't know whether they all are, or if it's only those with charitable status - i.e. I assume that private schools which are privately owned and run for a profit paid to the owners don't get charitable status, and if they don't, are they still vat exempt? I don't really know But I agree it would be odd if they are exempt. But I can see why those run on a not for profit basis should perhaps be exempt.

I agree there, but you just have to look at who will be voting on the charity status. No chance.

I meant I agree with luckygirl.

Brilliant. On Question Time, Dimbleby has just said it was Gove's idea. After the Tory said the idea was rubbish.

Yes I recall now reading an article by Gove criticising the tax status of private schools. But I dot think he said anything about free school meals. I rather think that's a Corbyn add-on. DJ, was that made clear in QT?

Nearly all independent schools are registered charities.

The way they get round making a profit is to set up secondary companies, which then provide a service to the schools. The secondary companies are allowed to be profit-making. State academies and free schools use this loophole too.

Many fairly wealthy parents send their children to state schools for idealogical or other reasons. Many parents/grandparents struggle to pay private school fees for their DC/DGC. It seems absurd that possibly wealthy parents could be subsidised by those who are just about well enough off to pay private school fees.

I don't have any objection to subsidised school meals, free for those who need them, but funded out of general taxation.

Personally I feel that Jeremy Corbyn has a problem with private and grammar schools which is not just a result of idealogy; I think his personal experiences colour his judgement.

My personal experiences colour my judgment about grammar and private schools. Nothing wrong with that, I don't think. Can't avoid it.
We're all experts in education as we've all been educated one way or another.

Fitzy, it was the fact that Fernandez voted for Gove to be PM, and now she says that taxing private education is wrong, despite the fact that it was his idea. Nothing to do with free school meals.

“The next Labour government will provide all primary school children with a free school meal, invest in our schools, and make sure no child is held back because of their background.”

So - is that just England or the whole of the UK?
As I said above, Welsh, Scottish, N Irish parents subsidising English children whose parents may well be able to afford to pay for school meals?

So when large numbers of parents decide that the VAT will just be a step too far and they cannot afford private school fees after all, will the state be prepared well in advance to take all these additional pupils?

Does anyone know how those who attended private schools, but had a free place because of a bursary, for example, would be affected tax wise? There are several private schools near me and they do advertise that they have some places available for the children of low income families, so I'm assuming that this is means tested.