V.A.T, in school fees

He didn't say English schools, so I assume it's all schools.

I understand that applications for two independent schools near where my DGC live are well down - a replacement comprehensive is being built there which will take fewer pupils too.
Presumably parents are feeling the pinch and will be applying for places at the new comprehensive which means those on the edge of the catchment area may not get in, which would include my DGC.

Diane Abbott said she would have been more than happy to pay VAT on the private school fees she paid for her son to help subsidise state school pupils' meals - but she could well afford it.
And - she would say that wouldn't she

I thought that education was devolved.

Has Jeremy thought about this?

VAT exemption is not just dependent on charitable status - this is from the link I provided earlier:

"For supplies of education to be exempt it is not necessary to be a charity. Education is exempt if it is supplied by an eligible body. Eligible bodies include schools within the meaning of the Education Act, UK universities, colleges or halls of such universities, further/Higher Education bodies, Government Departments/Local Authorities, bodies which are precluded from distributing profits; and where profits must be devoted to the exempt education, and bodies which teach English as a foreign language."

It's also worth remembering that charging VAT at 20% on school fees will not result in an extra 20% of all fees paid going to the Exchequer - that's not how VAT works - the schools would be able to offset their output VAT with their input VAT - as do all VAT liable businesses.
As I said - it's a complex tax.
This proposal is just "rich bashing" - the sad "politics of envy" - class war - it encourages one section of society to hate another section - not good for society.
My children all attended state schools - but I have no problem with people sending their children to private school - in fact it saves the state sector a lot of money - and the fees are paid for out of income that has already been subject to tax.

I think it's all a gimmick too. I don't know how many free school meals the VAT would "buy". When the coalition abolished the "Sport in Schools" initiative, it promised to give the money back to schools. This money was a few pounds per school and schools could have just about bought a single new football for the whole school.

The average annual fees for day pupils is about £16,000 and 80% of parents of children in independent schools have an income of over £50,000pa - so the issue of choice is quite clearly nonsense, because the vast majority of households do not have a spare £16,000pa per child. Increasingly, schools are relying on overseas pupils, which is why I wondered if overseas parents would be exempt.

I would be in favour of abolishing charitable status, but not to fund free school meals for all pupils. The FSM eligibility criteria urgently need reviewing, especially as Universal Credit rolls out, because there's a cliff edge. It's almost impossible now for the children of parents in work to be eligible for FSM, which is a major disincentive for people to come off JSA and take low paid work. However, I think there are better ways that schools could use any extra cash.

There are many politicians who send their children to state schools - are they to be subsidised with free meals by the 'just about affording school fees' parents?
The MPs and Lords already get excellent meals subsidised by us, the taxpayer.

It's not always paid for out of already-taxed income dbDB77. Some companies still pay school fees for their employees. I expect if they continued to do so, they would then offset the VAT against their profits.

Foreign pupils account for about 20% of all pupils in indies (in some schools it's much higher), so they won't have paid British tax - nor will some British ex-pats, who often send their children back to the UK to be educated.

Thats a good point dd . And those pupils who are attending a private school on a bursary, due to low income, would also possibly not be earning enough to be taxed.

I think most pupils on a bursary have parents who earn more than £11,500.

I tutor a number of pupils from independent schools and I know some of the wheezes parents use to get bursaries for their children. Full bursaries are quite rare, so parents still have to pay a few thousand a year.

Frankly, I think some independents aren't worth the money. I hear horror stories about some of them and I'm not impressed with the standard of work (that's why the parents employ me).

Thanks dd, my DC'S went to state schools so I don't have that much information about them, however my friend's GC attend private schools and do get some part of their fees on a bursary (no idea how much or what the criteria for receiving that is) but it's still a huge outlay annually, I think.

The Forces budget covers the cost of private education for children of service personnel to the tune of about £80 million per annum. Presumably the boarding school education of children of parents in the diplomatic service, MEPs and others is also paid for by the taxpayer.
If VAT is charged then the taxpayer will be funding that to give back to the state education sector.

It just has not been thought through properly.

Anyone can always pick holes in any idea that does accord with their own thinking. How do you know it hasn't been thought through properly? What do you know about the idea that nobody else does?

You are correct about children of service personnel above a certain rank, MEPs, diplomatic service, etc. One of my private students is funded at one of the most prestigious and expensive boarding schools in the country by a very well-known accounting firm, because her mother works for them. Another one was funded by a high street bank, forwhom her father worked. Allegedly he was based in Hong Kong , but he seemed to spend an awful lot of time in the UK.

I agree that it hasn't been thought through, although I don't know the actual figures.

It is also being claimed that the benefits of free school meals aren't quite so clear cut.

I didn't write this and I hadn't seen it before I posted, but I could have written it:

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/education/schools/news/84902/labour-overstating-evidence-free-school-meal-plan-says

Because I have so many questions. I didn't see the interview, so maybe they have been answered. I'm afraid I see it as a subsidy for the wealthier, just as raising the tax threshold is.

Many other people are asking the same questions. I don't claim to see anything that others can't see.

Thanks for the link dd, the comments by Michael Wishaw are of interest. I'm beginning to think that, at first glance, it appears to be a good idea to increase vat on private schools, very little of the revenue raised would actually reach the children who are intended to benefit. As Jalima says, not thought through properly. Back to the drawing board.

www.totalpolitics.com/articles/news/jeremy-corbyn-shows-other-politicians-how-talk-children

I'm not sure why you asked me gillybob "Did you really choose Norah?"

Of course I choose what I pay for, is that your question? Adding VAT to tuition for my GC, or GGC - would be fine (would have been fine in my children's case) as long as the VAT went into a general fund, not just for meals. Too squiggy to me. Who would administer another program?

I was surprised so many here supported it, I agree with dbD, and said yesterday it's just a move to drive a wedge in the far left's on going class war battle.

Have you invented a word, Norah? Squiggy?

The programme would not need to be administered separately from any other school funding.
Schools are funded, whatever sort of school they are, by collecting taxes, then handing the money out. What's the difference?

Diane "I can't defend the indefensible" Abbot who was heard to utter that statement when it was discovered that she opted for the private sector for her own child, magnanimously declared on QT, she would be happy to see VAT charged on school fees so the peasants children at state school can have free school meals. No doubt her colleague Shami who has also opted to put her child through the private sector would agree. How lucky we are!

Abbott would agree now, is her son still in school?

I do believe Annie that he has finished school now, I think I read somewhere that he went on to Diane's old Alma Mater, Oxford, but he did well like his mother.

Many of you here have mentioned the appalling quality of school dinners. They really are unappealing and certainly not healthy, in fact, one wonders if they are actually doing the children any good at all. Studies have shown that just filling children up with poor foods is of no benefit to their learning or their concentration.
If Jeremy Corbyn were to think about this tax properly, he would need to double the amount to get anywhere close to achieving healthy eating in primary schools. I eat regularly in the dining room of a private school. Nutritionists have planned every meal, much of the food is organic, there is a professional chef in the kitchen, there are three main choices per day, there are always salads and homemade breads available. There are desserts where the amount of sugar has been carefully restricted, there are pots of cut up fruits and whole bananas, apples, there are pots of yoghurts etc. All this is expensive and the parents are paying for it in their school fees, and they are happy to do so.
Will parents of pupils at state school then be expecting the same nutritious standards for free for their children? And maybe parents of private school children will then be asked to invite state school children home for an evening meal too.
This proposal is a complete disaster for social cohesion.

Labour's left have been batting on this subject for years. This is a political ploy to try and drum up support in the local elections. They hope it will increase class-warfare and boost the labour vote. Unfortunately, whatever Labour promises,it will take more that such a divisive idea to boost their popularity.
I thought it hilarious to see Corbyn squatting with the kiddies making cakes. About his level.