School breakfast clubs

So much of feeding children, on breakfast clubs helping parents get to work nurseries for children , the government wanting grammer schools, the oposition obsessed with free dinners for obese children,

The teachers are very concerned about the mental health of children, panic attacks, depression, chikdren need a home life but now parents seem to put their needs first, I want to get back to work, I need more than being in the house all day with chikdren. Sorry but for me it is chikdren who are paying a heavy price for their parents needs

I disagree. Children love being with their friends. What's the alternative for single parents and people with high rents or mortgages? Sponging off the state? Times have changed since women had to depend on their husbands. Women are other women's worst enemies.

From the age of 5 and 7 my children were brought up in a one parent family, what I couldn't afford I went without, yes it's hard for the parent ,better that than hard for the child. I hear so often children love being with their friends, time for that when school starts and there is no law against mother and baby groups. children need their mothers,

I disagree, so I think we'd better leave it there. I assume you had a widow's pension and help from the state. You seem to be very out of touch with the (lack of) help available now. You obviously didn't want your own career either. Life has changed. I don't agree that children need their mothers all the time - they do love being with friends. Mother and baby groups are my idea of hell. I don't understand why women are so bitchy about other women.

My daughter has had to work full time, to pay the mortgage and bills and feed her two children. I did help out one day a week although I was working too, but really Annie it's not always a case of it being 'hard' for the parent.

It's often impossible, especially when there's no financial help from the ex partner.

x posts daphne, but same message.

I think ab is making a valid point. Fay Weldon has been saying similar things recently under the title of "Feminism hasn't been good for most women." I can see both sides. The important thing is for women to have a choice.

Regarding the school breakfast clubs thing, it's really about raising standards in schools because the kids are not hungry and so really do learn better. At the same time, it's a sad reflection on our society that so many kids apparently go to school hungry.

Meanwhile we keep being told about how the numbers of obese children is increasing. Sounds like we're in a right mess to me.

Thank you Ana. I didn't have any financial help either,so it was up to me. It would have been impossible, if I'd had to rely on benefits. Fortunately, I will now have a semi-decent pension. It will still be "hard", but I won't have to rely on benefits and I have two wonderful children.

Fine if you can afford to stay at home and look after your young children until they're grown up - husband working, tighten belts etc. Unfortunately many women don't have that choice.

And yes, Annie did have her widow's pension, which no longer exists, but of course these days stay-at-home single parents usually have to rely on benefits and are often classified as 'scroungers'.

(in reply to thatbags' post)

Daphne, yes I had a widows pension, nothing else from the state, I have said many times, I did cleaning so I could take my children with me , no free school meals either.

I understand thatbags and agree now things are difficult but not on a woman's choice, this often means try to have it all, if one chooses to have a family the choice has been made,

Daphne, I am sorry you were left with a six month old baby ,bthan must have been grim

If one chooses to have a family the choice has been made - yes, but at the time you probably think you'll be with your partner forever.

Fine if you can survive on whatever benefits you receive, and have no mortgage, but rather different when you don't have enough income and no circle of friends and relatives to help out...I do think you're a bit very out of touch, Annie.

By the sound of it, it's all rather hit and miss. Wales has free breakfast clubs in primary schools, England has free school lunches for children aged up to 7 - someone somewhere needs to do some 'joined-up' thinking and work out a proper national policy.

Tinkering around with VAT on school fees in England is not the answer.

Where did you get the idea I had a six month old baby? I didn't choose to be a single parent.

I'm guessing you didn't spend quality time with your children while you were cleaning annie.

In any case it's not your business to judge others. Maybe you think I didn't pay my taxes on the money I earned - I hope you paid yours!

I certainly paid my taxes, which have gone to pay the benefits and pensions of those who didn't work or needed tax credits. I had a good education courtesy of the state. I was lucky and don't begrudge what I've paid, so don't lecture others about how they've brought up their children. Mine are absolutely fine.

jalima I agree with you that VAT on school fees free school meals shouldn't be connected. As I've said all along, I don't think free school meals are an effective use of money anyway, although breakfast clubs are different. Not only are they convenient for parents and ensure that children have had something to eat, but the pupils enjoy them and are in the right frame of mind to start the school day with a purpose.

I used to love going to work with my DM in the couple of years before I started school and I can still remember it now.
My primary school teacher used to bring her son into our all-girls school with her in the holidays because he was at a private school so had longer holidays. We loathed him, he used to sit behind her and pull faces at us all.

Sorry Daphne, when you said you placed your choked in full time care st sux months I didn't think it was by choice

Did you have a working father though, Jalima? And I wonder whether the teacher had a working husband too.

Times change.

My experience of children with serious mental health problems is that they were usually (not always) from families with a long tradition of child abuse or neglect, rather than from so called "good enough" families, where both parents or one single parent went out to work.
Like daphnedill, I returned to full time work when my two younger children were about 6 - 7 months. I was lucky, I used leave and flexi time to return part time so by the time I was full time, they were very settled with the child minder who (30 years later) remains a family friend. Both those children are now mothers of toddlers, both work and their children are confident, happy and outgoing. They spend part of the week in nursery, part with grandparents. Nurseries are very different places than they were 30 years ago.
Research quoted (even in the Mail) this week, suggests that the children of working mothers tend to be more successful in work, aspiring to senior positions.
Amongst the adult children of my friends, all of whom worked either full or part time throughout their childhoods, the now 30 plus year olds are doing well, thank you.

Yes, I did Ana, just commenting that I went with DM to work as there was obviously no child care in those days and they couldn't have afforded it if there had been.

I don't know about the teacher.

Jalima Wales has a different policy about school meals/ breakfast club because the education budget is devolved to the Welsh Assembly as I understand it. England's policy comes directly from central government. So two different countries as far as Education is concerned. (And Scotland 's education has long been different of course.)
It's a Labour government in Wales I believe.

I typed six months and it has become choked, my spelling is not as grim as that

I went back to work when my kids were just a few months old. They went to a childminder who was wonderful
It was hard work and emotionally challenging
But the worst thing was the prejudice and nasty comments from others. Mainly other women.
Please do not let us go down that road again!

Daphne, another apology,i thought you were much older than a mother of babies when tax credits came into being

Please accept my apologies for my post, Iam, Ana, Morgana, and anyone else who may be hurt or offended,,it was wrong of me . I am truly sorry

Annie

Anniebach Did you live in privately rented accommodation or did you have a mortgage to pay? On a cleaner's wages, you'd be hard pushed these days, with either private rent or mortgage to pay, to manage on one salary.

Aside from that, whilst I believe that weekly working hours are far too long for both men and women, and particularly for people with young families, should a woman (or a man)devote years of their lives and all their waking hours to housework and looking after children? I don't think that is healthy for either them or the children. And if a woman (or a man) spends many years at home, this will affect any career plans they may have had.

I agree that many children in this country are suffering because of the long working hours demanded of their parents, but that is not the parents' fault and I think it is wrong to put it down to their selfishness.

It appears that children in this country are far more prone to mental illness and emotional difficulties than in many other countries of similar economic standing. I don't believe this is down to mothers going out to work (they go out to work in those countries too) but to many other factors, not least of which are sky-rocketing property prices, stagnating wages, insecure housing and employment, and expensive and often barely adequate nursery provision.

There is plenty of stirring talk at the moment about the importance of giving everyone an equal shot. I feel that, in reality, far from prioritising children, the cuts to education and services (such as Sure Start Centres - cut by a third) and benefits - including in-work benefits - mean that children will continue to be the victims of short-sighted policies that will in the long term adversely affect the physical and mental health of the country and damage its intellectual standing - as has happened in the USA.

As for Fay Weldon, I don't see why her opinion should be valued any more highly than any other woman's opinion. She came from a middle class family and benefited from a good education, culminating in a place at St Andrew's. When her first marriage (to a headmaster many years her senior) failed, she went out to work and became head of copywriting in an advertising agency. Even though she apparently worked from home (which many women can't do) I wonder if she coped without any other domestic assistance. Frankly, she is one person who really gets on my nerves, with her constant criticisms of feminism and her suggestion that sexual harassment was welcomed by women in her day.