Brexit - the end of the beginning - the negotiations begin

Why do people keep saying we are only a tiny little island ? We have always been a tiny little island, but we have done great things.....and yes I know some bad ones too. We still have a voice in the world, and if we all pull together we can have a greater one.

I'm really sorry but comments like this make me want to tear my hair out.

The reason this tiny little island did great things was that it had an Empire. To put it very simply, we imported cheap raw materials from the Empire countries, made things with them and then sold the manufactured goods back to the countries of the Empire and made a profit on the transaction.

I don't think some people have quite understood that we don't have an Empire any more and that we don't have the same opportunities to buy cheap and sell dear that we had in the past. We are now a tiny little island with no cheap resources to exploit who is about to put in jeopardy 44% of our exports...

We don't even really make anything these days. Someone upthread mentioned kitchens full of German made appliances. If we don't even want to buy our own home produced manufactured goods why would we think the rest of the world would want stuff we clearly regard as inferior?

All we seem good at exporting now in any meaningful way (i.e good earners) are financial services and arms. The export of the first is going to be severely curtailed after Brexit and the export of the second leaves a very nasty taste in many people's mouths..

Are you going into purdah for the next five years, gagsy?

Let's just be done with it

This is worldwide poverty reducing dramatically, is it?
Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day.

At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day.

More than 80 percent of the world’s population lives in countries where income differentials are widening.

According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty. And they "die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death."

The poorest 40 percent of the world’s population accounts for 5 percent of global income. The richest 20 percent accounts for three-quarters of world income.

Personally I think coming out and staying in are fraught with negatives. Staying in isn't working and coming out is into a lot of unknowns. One good thing about leaving is our governments will not be able to hide behind the EU. It's happening already. We are far more conscious of what the parties are saying and offering. It's scary for me because I don't like what any of them are saying or not as the case may be. We can just walk away from the EU. I must admit the way they are speaking to us and about us is so disrespectful considering we have put the most money in other than Germany. And it's the people's decision. What does get me is people talk about the EU and the market we deal with and there might be tariffs, the country is going to full apart. Doom and gloom.when very few actually sell anything overseas. How do these people think it happens. By magic. It's individuals with vision plus hard work. Everyone should be thinking how can I improve things.

I'd love to see that, Welshwife, and other parties give her a clear run.

Sorry, Fitzy, but I can't beleive you said that.
We give the poor countries some of our wealth? And that's why we have suffered?
Bloody hell!
You appear to have forgotten a lot of our colonial history, and what we took from those countries in the first place, and still are.
Worldwide poverty has reduced massively? Not in those countries that we have helped to bomb by selling them planes and ammunition. Not in those countries where we are taking their land to grow crops to feed our animals and ourselves.

Gina Miller has considered standing in Theresa May's constituency.!!! Not sure if she has come to a final decision on that.

ITB all they are doing is encouraging tactical voting to increase the pro- soft Brexit represention in Parliament, which, after all, would do no more than serve to better represent the views of the large minority that voted remain. Hardly hijacking the negotiations?

You are only 'nearly right 'too Holly it is little that they have to quibble about and much of the money they question is repaid. Not fraudulent accounts as people imply.

Le Pen has become quiet on the Frexit front - and she is not talking of leaving the Euro either - possibly a dual system - Franc for within France and Euro for international -!!!! Sounds pretty easy !!!

If you look at the figures for the health care you will find that it it is less for people in the EU than those who remain in the UK. I have seen the figures given a few times.

None of that is what really bothers me - it is the position our youngsters will find themselves in - hopefully they may still have access to the Erasmus Scheme which does them so much good. We have Young British people going through the University in Brussels so they are qualified to work in the EU - these are young people who have already done a couple of degrees to make them well able for their jobs. There are something like a dozen Brits going through at the moment. They will be able to finish their qualifications but unlikely to be able to take up a position there - will need to widen their horizons.

There are also small companies which export with no duty at the moment - the additional cost of duty plus paperwork may change things for the worst for them. Where companies are cross border and using several countries to make components it may well make the UK side of the business too expensive. I so hope these companies have a plan B at least.

It is always so much harder to extricate yourself from anything than to join. There are probably more snags to come to light as the process progresses.

Interesting, intotheblue.

Worldwide poverty - the real, screaming, class of poverty not seen in this country for hundreds of years, has reduced massively over the last 20 years or so, and a major reason (not the only reason) is globalisation. And you are right Lyndie - richer countries like ours have suffered. If we stopped outsourcing jobs kept them all here, and if we put up trade barriers so third world countries couldn't sell us their goods, those countries wouldn't be doing so well. But as it is, some of our wealth has gone to them. We might not like that, but I don't think we should try to take the moral high ground.

I think we are in big trouble if Gina Miller (funded by tax exile Richard Branson) or the Tony Blair/Alistair Campbell alliance get their way. They are all trying to highjack the negotiations for their own advantage.

At the moment we pay to belong to the EU as tax payers. If they introduce a tariff then the companies will pay the tariff. They can deal with it rather money taken from us. It may mean we pay a little extra but we will have that choice. It will also make British companies and farmers more competitive. Also we have a company that sells to the whole world. Everyone buys. In fact it's now a little cheaper with the pound being more competitive. We need desperately to export and our exports are going up. We need new money. To pay for the NHS etc. More entrepreneurial people because unless we do this country will get poorer and poorer. The government needs to encourage small businesses and encourage people to start new businesses. If the costas of this world went, small independents would start up employing themselves and others. Globalisation has hit us hard and people are poorer and all on the EU watch.

Opinions are all very well, and we all have a right to express them, but let's face facts. None of us knows what's really going on with brexit - we are reliant on propaganda which is spoon fed to us by the media.
I'm not very convinced that the Govt knows what's going on either - they seem to be a corrupt, self-serving, dopey and profligate crowd on the whole.
I am seriously worried and feel that my only option is to bury my head in the sand and pretend to ignore the horrors that are shortly to be visited upon us!

Fitzy54. I fully agree with what you say.

They have come in with a negotiating stance that best suits them. Why wouldn't they? To my mind it's in no way fair or reasonable, but why should it be. Our response may not be very fair or reasonable either. We're both out for all we can get. But those who think we are in the driving seat are deluding themselves. No other EU country faces losing over 40% of its export market overnight. Nothing like it.

Grandmatty, there is more in the Telegraph from Variufakis today and, yes, it is terrifying. It makes me realise we did the right thing in trying to extricate ourelves from such an authoritarian and deceiving bunch. The only question is:- ' can we get out or are we lobsters in the pot?'

When Cameron went to the EU and came back with nothing he was so sure that we would all vote to stay in, and those in the EU knew that, hence the reason he never got no-where.

Had he told the EU unless he went back with something they will want out, then he may have got somewhere. In Norway where I have family they are not in the EU as such but the have open borders /free trading [Although not many want to go there because of the bad winters] They have held two referendums and both times they have voted NO. Talking to a farmer this lunch-time he told me that for the first time in his life-time he is NOT voting Tory but the LibDems. |If you knew him like I do you would be shocked.

Nearly right Welshwife. The accounts have been signed off each year from 2007 by the Court of Auditors. That's "signed off" not agreed. This last time the Court felt that 4.4% of the total were not used in accordance with EU Rules but signed them anyway. They also found the money given to various countries was poor value. Three airports built in Poland received £100m in funding but have not attracted business. A mountain lift in Sicily received £2m but cannot be used because of operating costs just 2 examples. Marine Le Pen may not be talking about Brit pensioners but she IS talking Frexit - hence my reply to Violette. And yes, we do pay the health costs of our citizens abroad which is NOT cheap, but are tardy in recovering expenses incurred by EU members here. We tend to think it might be termed "racist" for some reason, I believe the May govt is on this now. Yes, once the deal is struck any one of the 27 can veto it - look what happened to Canada recently. Then what? We start again? I guess this is why Theresa May reiterated her view on "no deal" on Marr this morning.

Apparently, the validity of EU accounting is a matter of opinion! A bit hit and miss, like most dealings with the EU over the past heaven knows how long!

Evidence, daphnedill?

Pots and kettles spring to mind.

Anyway, the tide is turning.

The emotion shown by some is proof that they are not entering negotiations in a realistic and pragmatic fashion.

The latest polls are showing that the number of people who think Brexit was a mistake is creeping up.

So much for being united as a country. I don't think so, Mrs May.

The remainers like Paddyann just can not accept a decision that did not go their way and resort to name calling to vent their frustration daphnedill. Their outbursts during the referendum runup made the decision easirr for many undecided Leavers.