Brexit - the end of the beginning - the negotiations begin

Better than I thought it would be.

All looks quite reasonable to me - in fact quite good for the UK of they play ball and do not start demanding !
The people who drew that up have a far better grasp of what the withdrawal will do to the people who have quite legitimately exercised their rights of where they wished to live and made family lives for themselves than the blinkered UK Govt who really don't care about any of the people. - either UK citizens or the EU ones. Anyone who has to leave their home and move back to UK or to their home country should be adequately compensated by the UK Govt - it would be in the interests of the Govt to keep the status quo.

Yes it does all look quite reasonable. No doubt the UK government think it is not.
They still seem to think that negotiation requires a tough approach. Suspect the EU will continue to be reasonable and firm.

The EU feels that their banks have been taken from them. Banks which they always had access to and the Uk will have to compensate them for that.

Apart from that there are the foreign EU workers in Britain
and I'm sure TMay will cooperate on that.
The whole thing looks do able and I hope T May puts on her office cap and shuts up about emotional reasons and concentrates on getting a fair deal for all.

Of course the EU will miss the money but we all know who will end up paying for that.

Oh yes, the EU is wonderful.......reasonable and firm indeed!
I expect you would change your mind JessM about what you think of the UK government if at the GE Corbyn and friends were running things from here on in.
Simply because you voted to Remain does not mean that in the negotiations that will take place to Leave, the EU officials will be wonderfully fair and reasonable and the UK government will not be.

WW it's really quite ridiculous to say then UK govt. doesn't care about "any of the people".
The words from the EU are quite conciliatory but of course, the stance is actually a very tough one - agree all the things that are important to the EU before we start on anything else. Understandable. They have the upper hand and will use it to their advantage as much as possible.
As for reciprocal rights for citizens, this could have been settled by now if they had been prepared to talk, so I give them no credit for that.
I'm quite sure the govt. will respond in a positive manner, but we are in for no easy ride here. Some in Europe want to punish us, others want to treat us harshly as an example to other potential backsliders, and the rest will want to squeeze as much benefit from us for as little as possible in return. Their attitude will the same as TMs: "Brexit means Brexit"!

It is clear from the document that the EU is also concerned about the EU citizens in the UK. That's all of us who were born here and those who have settled here.

The pace this is all moving at, we can't be sure who we will be dealing with in future........... why should we seem so relieved that they want megga millions/ billions from us and no hard border in Ireland? Remember how Ireland was abused by EU having to keep re voting untiL the EU got the result it wanted?

No indicators of what they will return to us financially, they are ploughing on with their decimation of Greece, their EU army plans etc I think we should tell them to bugger off, fill the tunnel in and stick two fingers up at them and befOre people tell me that we have to honour our financia committments, Germany doesn't pay its NATO subs...........

Why do we insist upon playing by the rules and watching people stitch us up?

Corbyn? an old man who would rather sink his party than contain his ego......can't see that working for long.

Teresa is not much better......we urgently need new parties and new people and new world attitudes.

Fingers crossed.

Appalled at the aggressive stance taken by May, describing the other members as the opposition.
We were the ones who decided to leave..they wanted us to stay. As for them 'ganging up' on us...the clue is in the name...it's the European Union!

Did anyone read the article, interview and book extracts by Yanis Varoufakis, the former Greek finance minister who tried to negotiate a marginally less devastating austerity plan in the Daily Telegraph yesterday? [sorry I don't have the hyperlink].
It is terrifying. If the EU negotiators can do that to one of "theirs", what will they come up with for the poor UK whose only sin is to try and get out of the hydra-headed tentacles [to mix metaphors] that is the EU?

How is does any of this sound "reasonable". Spain to have a veto on Gibraltar. OUR Gibraltar whose people want to remain British. Bit like giving a veto on the economy of the Falklands to Argentina! Now Tusk has come to life and wants to impose 25 "rights" on EU citizens here. Our laws not good enough? Who oversees this? The EU court? The one we want to get away from?What about UK citizens in the EU? The EU would quite like upwards of €50b BEFORE we even begin talking please. Why? What about OUR assets in the EU? All the infrastructure we have put in place there. What are we supposed to do? Write these things off? The EU doesn't much want Scotland. (They have a point) but would be only too willing it seems to "welcome Northern Ireland" to join. Another part of our sovereign lands. But it all sounds "quite reasonable"? Are you mad?

Anyone would think that people aren't able to live in a country which wasn't in the EU. Can you believe that some UK citizens choose to live in Australia, South Africa, Canada etc. Yes, they had to apply in the first place to live there and rightly so. A country SHOULD be able to choose who lives there and who doesn't. Of course, people will still be able to live in other European countries. They did before the Common Market existed and they will be able to after the UK leaves the EU.

Oh Lordy....forget history at our peril! WE didn't vote to go in the EU, we didn't vote for mass immigration. The EU 'spokesmen/women' (not forgetting to be PC) are only thinking about their political jobs. They don't care a damn about anything that's decent, just a bunch of Dictators !!!!!!....UK will make their OWN decisions not be bullied ! We just can't save the world!

8hollycat* some of us dont believe it should be OUR Gibraltar ,or OUR Falklands ,why should they be British,I dont know what propoganda you've been reading but the EU are happy to keep Scotland in even Spain have said they wont veto our entry ...and why would they ? Scotland is a wealthy country ,after independence we'll rank ABOVE the rest of the UK in the richest countries charts...dont believe everything the unionist press prints .

Brexiteers = the bigotted and the braindead .Why on earth would you want to walk away from 500 000 000 potential customers with no other trade deals in place ? America is currently making deals with the EU ,it will be years before UK can make any and Trump will want bargain basement deals for his America first mantra....sadly May will give him what he wants including the NHS and anything else he can make money out of

Your stance is different paddy because you are a Scottish Nationalist.
grandmatttie we are not like Greece, we are a country with money.Poor old Greece had no input into negotiations they had to accept it all from the EU because of their poor financial situation.

Sorry Paddyann, so the dead and maimed soldiers who fought for the Falklands well within living memory are to be forgotten. Gibraltar which played such a strategic part in WW2 is to be forgotten. As for reading propaganda, you will by now be aware (as has been pointed out ad nauseum) that to stay in the single market and the customs union is not viable. Merkel laid it out again for us yesterday and the 27 have agreed. So forget it, it's not gonna happen. Why are you fighting the things that are done and dusted? And Scotland is a wealthy country? Yes, right. That being the case you won't need the Barnet formula any longer then? The formula that gives Scotland free prescriptions and free Universities? As a tax payer I'm pretty sick of funding your extravagant lifestyle.

Frankly I cannot see why we don't just say we are out and that's that. Neither apparently can the Queen. If the EU want to play nasty they should remember we can too. And nothing gets a Brits. back up faster than demanding things of us. Let's face it, if they impose tariffs, so can we. If they fine us, who is going to make us pay? If they make life more difficult for their own exporters of goods they will soon have a backlash to contend with. As for EU citizens living here, they can have a guarantee to be treated in the same way as the EU treats expats. We don't need their stranglehold on everything we want to do, we managed quite nicely without them before and will do again. I read the article by the Greek minister in the Telegraph yesterday. If that is their idea of negotiating God Help us. There have been various legal people saying there is nothing in the articles we signed to say we have to pay to get out, so I suggest they try and find some other mug to con.
I have no doubt this is not considered politically correct, and I don't give a ha'penny!
For Telegraph readers...I thought Matt was very apt today.
Margaret, on a high horse.

Margaret nothing wrong with giving our opinion, that's what this forum is for!

I think we should all wake up and smell the coffee there is NO WAY the UK is going to talk to 27 other nations about Brexit and us be happy with the long-term result. Never has any UK prime minster come back from the EU and been happy about what has been achieved. No club in the world is going to allow ex members dictate to them, ex is ex. We are where we are.For Mrs May to keep chanting "Strong and Stable" is childish. I voted UKIP last time because I was daft enough to believe all the lies that were being told but this time I am voting Labour. I am disgusted at how the Tories [I used to be one] have treated the NHS staff and public services and now talk of putting up VAT [Like Cameron did when he won] and cutting what pensioners are paid. The only thing the Tories run is into the ground.

Gibraltar has had strategic significance for Britain since the 18th century when it was ceded to us by treaty. But if I'm reading it correctly the Rock itself is not the point at issue but the land used by Britain for an airstrip in WW2, which wasn't in original treaty and its transfer to Britain has not been officially recognised in any treaty. We also have the inescapable fact that the Gibraltarians voted to remain in the EU. I'm sure they don't find this a problem to be lightly brushed aside with references to 'the will of the people'.

Interesting that Hollycat is certain that we won't be staying in the customs union. In the NI thread roses seemed sure that it was all up in the air...

As a tax payer I'm pretty sick of funding your extravagant lifestyle.

I would guess that Hollycat is a tory voter...

That's a good idea Gardenman99. Corbin will be over the moon that he has convinced at least one member of the electorate.

The money they are asking for is money the UK are contracted into - agreements signed to run till 2020 I think - similarly any deals the EU did with the U.K. K will run till the contract period I over - then new contracts will ne be given - cue job losses at Airbus wings factories etc etc. Contracts signed are expected to be honoured.
Gibralter voted by over 90% to REMAIN in the EU - Maybe Spain in effect are sticking up for them and their right to remain - the UK are not doing much to help there.
As to Ireland - the EU have said if there is a reunification of Ireland then they will be happy to have Northern Ireland back in the EU again. Quite different to what was said up thread.

Throughout the forthcoming negotiations, no doubt the EU will continue to be what it always has been, - dictatorial, domineering and downright awkward. The sooner we are out the better, in my opinion.
And, I am neither bigotted nor braindead - how rude!