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Crazy benefits system need an overhaul

(218 Posts)
Poly580 Sat 20-May-17 18:00:52

I am absolutely in shock that a friend has just visited in a £47,000 Volvo given to them by the state. The only only additional payment was a deposit of £3,100. They also get free road tax, parking, tires and apparently don't have to worry where they park as they just give the vehicle back in two years time for a new one. Scratches aren't a problem.

I knew people could get a top up benefit, mobility, that they can give to a car dealer for a car but I was expecting a vehicle of much smaller value.

I am not against the disabled being helped and supported, that's a given for me but this is a step too far.

Why have they allowed this benefit to get to this level?

We live In an age were children are about to be denied free school dinners when it's possibly the only hot meal they may have all day, pensioners dying because they are being refused heating payment, people denied cancer drugs because we can't afford it, homeless.....the list goes on.

1. Why not reduce the value for the cars as this figure seems disproportionate and wrong.
2. You should not be able to buy a car of this value on benefits when somebody working 40 hours per week could not afford to do so.
3. Do a deal with a car manufacturer ( all the British ones have gone) who employees British people and at least let our own country benefit from employment in manufacturing.
4. If you can afford £3,100 deposit for a 4x4 then you are receiving too much benefit.
5. You won't die without a car but you might through lack of food, heating or treatment. Cheaper cars should be given and then share the rest of the funds amongst the needy.
Is anyone else shocked at the value of the cars you can get on the benefits system?

vampirequeen Sat 20-May-17 18:37:57

The car isn't 'given' to them. They use the mobility portion of their PIP to lease it.

Poly580 Sat 20-May-17 18:49:53

Vampirequeen wasn't sure what it was called "pip".....imop it is given to them as they don't pay for it.
The point I was making is you shouldn't be able to get £47,000 worth of car on the benefits system .

SueDonim Sat 20-May-17 19:10:36

I have friends with mobility vehicles for their disabled children. They can top up the mobility allowance to enable them to get the car that suits them best.

I don't see why being disabled means you can't have the same things as other people. I'm certain my friends would give up their cars in a heart beat if it meant their children could free if their disabilities.

annsixty Sat 20-May-17 19:13:38

Absolutely agree.

Elegran Sat 20-May-17 19:13:53

Poly Did your friends tell you all those details? I am not convinced that they are all true.

To be accepted into the mobility Scheme, they would need to be receiving the appropriate allowance There are two rates, There are two rates of the mobility component depending on how the disability affects them They would be getting the Higher Rate Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance (HRMC DLA) As of 12 April 2017, this allowance is £58.00 per week. which they can spend as they wish. This is one way to spend it. Others may choose to get taxis.

The only Volvo on the mobility scheme list is the V40. The most expensive one is priced at £26,695. There may have been some modifications to suit a specific disability, but I don't think the would have brought the cost up to £47,000.

To get this car, they would have had to exchange all their mobility allowance (£58 per week) plus put down a deposit of up to £1000.

Scratches DO matter. When the car is handed back after two years, it is inspected closely for damage and lack of maintenance.

Christinefrance Sat 20-May-17 19:15:23

That's right SueDonim but I do agree with Poly that British cars should be used then everyone benefits.

annsixty Sat 20-May-17 19:16:53

Sorry that was to the OP.
Would the friends be affording that quality of car if their child wasn't disabled.

SueDonim Sat 20-May-17 19:20:37

Christinefrance, I don't think people should have choice taken away from them, simply because they are disabled.

It would be great if we all bought British/ethically etc but we're fortunate enough to have free choice about those things in this country. Disabled people shouldn't have to be held to higher standards than anyone else.

SueDonim Sat 20-May-17 19:26:38

I'm not sure if your question of 19:16 was to me, Annsixty, but in one friend's case, they wouldn't even want a second car if their child wasn't disabled. He has very specific needs. Their own car is an 18yo Datsun that was given to them by a kind friend.

In the other case, there are two other children to be transported as well and when one is a 6ft plus teenager and the other heading that way, a Fiat 500 simply won't cut the mustard. (Not that they're cheap anyway.)

Poly580 Sat 20-May-17 19:37:54

Elegan hes my friend did tell me those details. The car is for her, she does not have disabled children. Her previous car on the scheme was an Audi A5
She had to pay a deposit of £3,100.
I think it goes without saying that people would rather have healthy people in their families rather than cars.

This isn't about them having cars, it's about the value of the cars. It's appreciated/understood that they need to get from A to B.
Seroisly, what used to happen before your could get a car on PIP?

durhamjen Sat 20-May-17 19:44:13

For all those who like to criticise without knowing the facts.

I have a seven year old Renault scenic, because it was one of the few cars my husband could get into, and with a flatbed boot to put a wheelchair in.
When he died in 2012, I bought it for £10,000 from Motability. Is that okay?

annsixty Sat 20-May-17 19:56:44

Sorry sue unable to answer fully now. Will address your question when I can ,which msay be tomorrow.

SueDonim Sat 20-May-17 19:58:07

People had invalid carriages, Poly580.

Elegran Sat 20-May-17 19:58:32

I was going to ask about a wheelchair, dj. A car with a large easily accessible boot is needed to lift a folded chair into without completely damaging your back (I have tried it) The car also needs to be easy to get in and out of, and utterly reliable so that it doesn't strand a disabled driver/passenger in the back of beyond.

It is car rental. They don't own the car. Neither does the mobility scheme. I believe the rental is arranged via a car firm, who sell the car on once the two-year rental period is up. They find that the cars are generally in good condition when they are returned, so they have not gone down in value. I still don't understand the £47,000 as there doesn't seem to be a Volvo of that value in the list of those available on the motability scheme.

Before the scheme I imagine disabled people just stayed at home, out of sight.

Elegran Sat 20-May-17 20:00:08

Those invalid carriages were a menace on the roads, to the people in them and to other drivers. Underpowered and draughty, and no space for a carer.

Galen Sat 20-May-17 20:13:25

Too be eligible for hr mob under the new pip scheme, your mobility must be less than 20 meters,unless you also have a mental health problem which can get you extra points.
Under the previous DLA the distance you could walk had to be less than 50m

SueDonim Sat 20-May-17 20:21:14

Here are details of the scheme.

Mobility allowance is not means tested so if you can pay something extra towards a car, you'll get a wider choice.

durhamjen Sat 20-May-17 20:23:44

50,000 people have lost their motability cars under the new scheme, up until 17th April 2017.
Is that not enough?

Elegran, nowadays you can buy the car from Motablility after the three year lease is up.

Poly580 Sat 20-May-17 20:36:30

Elegan have just looked at the mobility list and the most expensive Volvo is £35,000 so I don't know why my friend would lie about that. I am even more shocked at the choice in that list BMW 5 door sport, it's a joke!

NanaandGrampy Sat 20-May-17 20:38:01

Just because something has a RRP of £47,000 does not mean that's what it costs.

If you obtain your vehicle through the Motability system , there is a choice of vehicles each with an advance payment . So the choice is already limited ( not all the makes and not all the models). Motability then obtain these vehicles through a leasing scheme at a hugely reduced price ( economies of scale etc).

After 3 years ( not 2 , but can be up to 4 years) , you hand the car back, and start again. Motability then sell on the vehicle and recoup part of the purchase price.

So, it's not quite what you assumed Poly.

Poly580 Sat 20-May-17 20:38:32

Durhamjen, really? Why did they lose their cars?

Poly580 Sat 20-May-17 20:44:59

NannandGrampy, thank you for that info. How are they buying at a reduced price. My husband works in the car industry and somebody has to subsidise the vehicle somewhere because the manufacturing company will not lose out.
We will just have to disagree on the limited choice I am afraid. What do people want for nothing. If I was in need I would be grateful for anything

durhamjen Sat 20-May-17 20:46:00

Too be eligible for hr mob under the new pip scheme, your mobility must be less than 20 meters,unless you also have a mental health problem which can get you extra points.
Under the previous DLA the distance you could walk had to be less than 50m

From Galen.

durhamjen Sat 20-May-17 20:51:24

They don't get it for nothing. Just be grateful you do not need a motability car, Poly. There is obviously nobody in your family who needs one either, or you would not be so callous.
My husband would have been very pleased not to have needed one for 15 years. I would have been pleeased, too, to not have to lift him onto a wheelchair, wheel him out to the car, lift him into the car, put the wheelchair into the boot, then do the reverse on stopping. Doing that there and back for any journey was quite an ordeal for us both.