Group responsibility?

POGS Why do you think white supremacists hate "others" so much? Aren't they the mirror image of jihadists? What do you think it is that triggers an irrational hatred of people who are different?

I agree POGS that religion does play a part ( twisted with hatred though it is.)
It certainly can't all be laid at the doors of fractured families ( are Muslim families as fractured as others?) poor childhoods or anything else.All kinds seem to be attracted to IS and all for different reasons, but the twisted version of Islam is the one thread that binds them all together.

Luckygirl I've seen first hand the conflict experienced by second generation immigrants, although hopefully none have turned into jihadists.

Firstly, they are exposed to racism and I think we should be honest enough to admit that. They have to try hard to be one of the crowd and sometimes go overboard, especially if they get in with bullying gangs.

Secondly, their parents are caught in a trap. They want to do the best for their children, but are caught between a Western culture, which they often feel is permissive, and imposing rules, with which they themselves grew up. As a consequence, parenting can sometimes be inconsistent.

Children drift from one set of moral guidelines to another and, as with many drifters, they eventually find themselves alienated.

The Westminster Bridge murderer was a convert, but he had a classically dysfunctional childhood, along with being mixed race, which made him an outsider.

Thomas Mair, Jo Cox's murderer, also had an unsettled childhood. If I remember correctly, his mother left him with his grandmother, married and had another child who lived with her. The new husband was black. Who knows what was going on inside Thomas' head? Dylann Roof's parents were divorced and he had a difficult relationship with his stepfather.

There is a pattern in the background of Westerners who turn to extremism.

Of course, it can't all be blamed on fractured families. All I'm saying is that there is a pattern, which is worth exploring.

Thomas Mair, Dylann Roof and Anders Brevik weren't linked to Islam (twisted or not), but they were still extremists with a similar mindset. What do you think attracts them?

daphnedill Mon 29-May-17 11:22:49

POGS Why do you think white supremacists hate "others" so much? Aren't they the mirror image of jihadists? What do you think it is that triggers an irrational hatred of people who are different?

No idea I'm not a white supremacist any more than I am a Jihadist.

I do however condemn white supremacy and I do condemn the barbarism of the Jihadist.

Most young men are hardwired to take a line more revolutionary than their parents do. Young men in a culure they see as different from what appears to them as the one taught by the founders of their ideology, and feeling alienated from the population around them, for whatever reason, hark back to basic teachings (or their interpretation of them).

If there is an active and proselytising branch of that fundamentalism, which has been reviled for its attitude and the actions it has taken to promote it, then a young man can feel that his support is needed. By joining he gains a validation of his worth, an instant band of dedicated colleagues, a sense that his contribution is valued, an outlet for his energy and loyalty and his willingness to sacrifice himself in a cause he believes in, and even a promise that if he dies in the attempt, he will live on for ever in Paradise.

Exactly.
A bit like joining a gang, with the added plus of taking the moral high ground.

POGS Do you agree that racist extremists such as the EDL, Britain First and all the other right-wing "infidel" groups should be outlawed in the UK, just as IS is?

Terrorist groups have existed for centuries in one form or other. They are primarily political and/or ideological. I know from experience that white supremacists actually believe in their cause and would quite happily rid the earth (or at least the part of it they consider to be theirs) of non-whites. To date, they haven't found an efficient way of doing it.

All extremist groups need foot soldiers, such as the IS suicide bombers, and exploit the confusion some young men (in particular) about their religious beliefs. Demonisation of Islam helps their cause.

daphnedil

daphnedill Mon 29-May-17 18:28:08

POGS Do you agree that racist extremists such as the EDL, Britain First and all the other right-wing "infidel" groups should be outlawed in the UK, just as IS is?

To ask me if 'I agree' denotes you believe the EDL, Britain First and all other far-right groups should be banned. As far as I know they are subject to UK law but if they or any member steps out of line then they should be subjected to the law of the UK.

As far as I know none or those groups mentioned have resulted in practicing human slavery, rape of women and children, crucifixion , beheading , called for the death of those who do not hold their ' twisted ' view etc.

I have answered but I am not sure why you keep asking me about far-right groups of which I have no more knowledge than possibly you do.

I read today that Americans are 7 times more likely to be killed by a white supremacist than an ISIS inspired terrorist.
You would not guess that from most US media or Trump government speeches!!
I suspect there are a lot more fascist race crimes that we never hear about in the press. I do not say this to minimise the dreadful crimes carried out by terrorists. I just think that white racist crimes may be under reported,either because they are so ordinary they are not thought to be newsworthy OR because of fear by authorities that media coverage might spark a backlash in the same way people think the child abuse cases in Bradford etc.were not dealt with for fear of the backlash.

POGS,

It's late and am tired,so don't have the energy to write much. I almost certainly have a great deal more direct experience of far right groups than you do.

May 27th 2017 -
www.thenews.com.pk/latest/207047-Religious-scholars-issue-unanimous-fatwa-declaring-suicide-attacks-Haram

"ISLAMABAD: Religious scholars from all schools of thought on Saturday issued a fatwa (religious decree) that declared suicide attacks, armed insurgency against a state and use of force in the name of imposing Shariah as ‘Haram’ or forbidden in Islam."