Gransnet forums

News & politics

Group responsibility?

(112 Posts)
Anniebach Wed 24-May-17 12:26:36

As Mosques have been attacked is it little wonder some choose to remain silent ?

I can speak out against Christians who murdered staff in an abortion clinic without fear of my parish church being attacked

Penstemmon Wed 24-May-17 12:16:44

But there are Muslims in Manchester, London etc. where atrocities have taken place. ISIS does NOT discriminate but kills anyone , of any faith or none, to try to achieve its caliphate ideals.

Elegran Wed 24-May-17 10:34:16

It might not deter fanatics, but it might make an impression on the non-Muslim people who are being targetted, and prevent them from believing that all Muslims are the same. That in itself could lead to better relationships, which could mean fewer people alienated enough to join terrorist groups.

sunseeker Wed 24-May-17 10:04:51

We all know the terrorists practice a perverted form of Islam which the vast majority of Muslims do not recognise. I do wonder whether there is sufficient condemnation of this warped form of Islam from some Imams. Some time ago I was talking to a Muslim friend who had heard one of the hate preachers speak. He went to the Imam of his Mosque and asked that he speak out against the preacher, the Imam refused to do so, no reason was given although my friend thinks it was fear of reprisals. My friend now worships at a different Mosque.

MargaretX Wed 24-May-17 09:29:18

Not all Germans were responsible for the holocaust, but many Germans visiting Britain find them selves accused at some time or another. Even children coming on school exchanges.

When faced with an atrocious event like the one we saw in Manchester we need someone to blame, to ease the pain, and are not thinking straight. The social media which should know (and behave) better relish these moments.

daphnedill Tue 23-May-17 20:51:27

Well said anniebach!

I'm not a Christian, but I'm white, British and was christened. I do not feel that I'm responsible for everything that white British Christians do.

MiceElf Tue 23-May-17 16:55:23

Well said Penstemmon, I'm quite shocked at the level of ignorance and prejudice that has been displayed.

An equivalent scenario would be to expect every man in the nation to condemn 'men' after one of them has murdered his partner, or to expect every Conservative Councillor to loudly condemn Cllr Nick Harrington for his racism.

I could go on but to blame an organisation or religion or political party or gender for the actions of a few wicked members is beyond stupid.

M0nica Tue 23-May-17 16:54:44

There is no religion that advocates or condones the merciless murder of innocent people, especially children, for a religious or political cause. The 'IS' terrorists are no more islamic than IRA terrorists were Roman catholic because they came from a predominantly catholic population and had been brought up in that faith.

I think the problem arises because most religions are hierarchical and have clear national leaders, for catholics the Archbishop/Cardinal of Westminster, for C of E, the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Islam does not work like this, each mosque has its Imam and he is not part of a hierarchical organisation, so when atrocities like this occur, there is no one High Imam who can stand up as the representative of British Muslims and speak with authority to condemn these attacks.

With no central authority for reporters to contact and interview to provide a universal Islamic view, it makes Muslim reaction appear muted when in fact they are as horrified by these events as the rest of the population

ethelwulf Tue 23-May-17 16:51:24

It’s so disappointing yet sadly predictable to see reports of a mindless, indiscriminate backlash from certain individuals against Moslems in response to this latest outrage committed by a small number of evil extremists. Our Security Services have had considerable success in recent years in uncovering and neutralizing numerous potential terrorist attacks on the UK mainland, based on detailed intelligence. Do these anti-Moslem idiots seriously believe that such intelligence has been gathered by infiltrating a Christian, blonde, blue-eyed, Anglo-Saxon Daniel Craig 007 lookalike into ISIS, Al Khaida, or other extremist group, all done at phenomenal personal risk of an agonising, protracted death if discovered? Probably.. because they are deeply ignorant. The Moslem Council of Great Britain has immediately and unconditionally condemned the atrocity, and expressed the hope that the guilty parties will receive appropriate punishment “both in this life and the next”. The terrorists are aiming to generate both division and hatred through these barbaric acts. We must resist these aims at all costs, and remain united across all races and creeds within our multi-cultural society, determined to continue to live our daily lives, enjoying those personal freedoms which were so hard-won over the years. We shall overcome…

Anniebach Tue 23-May-17 16:42:40

I so agree with you Penstemmon, as a practising Christian I never thought and was never asked to speak out against the atrocities in NI because I was a Christian , so why should those of Muslim faith be expected to speak out . We should unite and stand with Muslims not single them out .

Should all members of the armed forces have spoken out against the Sgt who shot an injured man? No.

The more we link Muslims with ISIS the more racists will attack Muslims, driving more to become ISIS fodder .

No man is an island entire of it's self , any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind

janeainsworth Tue 23-May-17 16:42:30

penstemmon I agree with you that it is not logical, nor should it be expected. No-one expected that Catholics or Protestants should be louder in their condemnation during the Troubles in Northern Ireland, depending on who had perpetrated the latest atrocity against who.
I think it is part of the modern thing of being expected to show emotion generally, as whenever there is a terrorist attack, social media is full of people signalling their condemnation, as if every right-minded person doesn't condemn terrorism.
A prime example being the criticism of the Queen for her restraint after Diana's death.

Penstemmon Tue 23-May-17 16:13:08

In people's shocked response to atrocities carried out under the name of ISIS style ideology there is often an expectation that people who are Muslim should condemn the actions more loudly that non-Muslims.

I appreciate that the perpetrators use the Islamic faith to justify their warped and evil actions but they are not spiritual or mainstream in any way. The majority of people are shocked and horrified by the murders in Manchester. People who are Muslim are as different from each other as any people from other faith/non faith groups.

Is it right to expect louder condemnation from people who are Muslim? Does that not keep linking communities of Muslims with the crimes when in fact they are no more responsible than anyone else.

It is my belief that ISIS wants to create tensions between faith groups across the world so that when pushed to the wall numbers of Muslims would be more susceptible to the brainwashing and become ISIS cannon fodder. We need to resist this.