A Labour Government.

We've been flogging that for years celia -there's none so blind who will not read though. Plenty on here who won't read.

But it is worth repeating as eventually the truth might get through

But is it wise to go down a path we've already been down that also resulted in debt even if it was smaller than the one we currently have? And let's not forget the huge bill the EU is hoping to land us with for leaving.

We need someone strong and determined to get us the best deal with the Brexit negotiations they can and I'm sorry but I just don't think Corbyn's up to it.

Smileless I don't understand your post. Are you saying we should continue down the same path the government is pursuing even though the debt is increasing, just because you don't like the other lot?

And who is this strong and determined person who you think can best get us through the Brexit negotiations?

I'm sorry but I don't see any logic in your argument, unless I have misunderstood you.

smileless Repeat after me --But it didn't end in debt THAT IS THE POINT

The financial world caused an almighty implosion, Brown was forced to bail them out to prevent the UK economy from crashing.

The bankers caused the debt to the tune of £1trn+ BANKERS CAUSED THE DEBT. Without their complete cock up the UK government was sitting pretty and the future looked rosy.

Celiasaid we should choose a different path nightowl because of the size of debt with the present gov. IMO going back to a Labour gov. who also ran up a huge debt, although not as huge as the current one, is not choosing a different path. A different path for me would be voting for one of the other parties.

I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone should vote for the Conservatives because I "don't like the other lot"; I assume you meant labour by the way. I expect everyone who votes to vote for the party they believe can and will be the best thing for the country.

TM of course, I believe she can do it and don't believe that Corbyn can.

dj ref. your post on the previous page. I wasn't criticising anyone for not listening to facts and figures. I was making the point that IMO some posters don't want to listen to a point of view that differs from their own, and even if that opposing view point were to contain facts and figures it wouldn't make any difference.

I made this point as it seems that posts not inc. facts and figures are regarded by some as being made by ill informed or uninformed posters. I was made to feel that the absence of these from my own posts was seen by some as my not having a clue what I was talking about and probably shouldn't be voicing my opinions at all.

Yes I'm well aware of that Whitewave but my post wasn't about who or what created the debt when the the last Labour gov. was in power. "smileless Repeat after me...." really!! I don't need to repeat anything after you and I also don't need to be condescending.

Did anyone else read the article by the retired British Ambassador ? He said how anyone considers that T May would be a good negotiator is beyond him as she cannot even debate with other politicians because she cannot remember facts and when asked anything off the cuff cannot answer. He said that she is the worst speaker in the HoC when in Govt or Opposition that he has seen. He also said that getting a deal needs negotiation with each side giving and eventually an agreement being reached and not the aggressive stance the UK Govt is taking.

And further. Brown and Darling had kickstarted the economy so that by 2010 it had begun to grow. Austerity stopped it dead. The Tories have simply added to the debt but at the same time caused untold misery to the poor and disabled. Taken the NHS to the brink. Cut police numbers during a time of threat. Cut schools budget so that we have children CLEANING their classrooms and taking in loo paper pens and pencils as well as having to tolerate bigger class sizes. The social care budget has been slashed to the extent that bed blocking is now a major issue.
On and on and on

Like Monopoly rules, whitewave.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Screen-Shot-2017-06-01-at-11.35.15-479x300.png

smileless then I totally fail to see your point.

So, Smileless, I asked you for facts to help me change my mind. You wouldn't give me any.

You should know by now that I have not always voted Labour.
Why are you not prepared to try and persuade me?

smileless I don't know (literally) whether it has to be the PM who heads our talks, but the opinion has been expressed on GN - and I agree - that Keir Starmer is likely to make a good negotiator - he was DPP, has gravitas, is articulate etc.

It still surprises me the way people say 'Labour' as if it was just one thing. Blair was New Labour, he changed an awful lot of what had previously been Labour policy to something far nearer the Tories. But in any case, that was 20 years ago, this is a different world and all these years of austerity have really damaged our economy except for the very rich.
The Labour manifesto has been costed and approved by the IFS, it is not going to put the country in more debt as the current government has done. We do need a change of direction.
This election is getting more interesting every day :-)

Because I didn't come on here to try and persuade others not to vote Labour dj and with your obvious interest in facts I'm pretty sure that if you seriously wanted any to see if you might like to change your mind, you'd find them for yourself.

Well whitewave I'm sure neither of us will be losing any sleep because you've totally failed to see my point.

worth consideration angelab.

Angelab, neither Corbyn nor May will head the Brexit talks, so it doesn't matter which one of them would be best.
I understand it will be Starmer or Davis.
I know who I would prefer.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-12-at-20.47.59-550x731.png

To show who runs the economy best.

Smileless2012, Right. I vote to what I feel is best.

Me too dj

Labour Brexit Team is

Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardner.

Does anybody understand how or why when everything has suffered cuts since the Conservatives came to power that the borrowing and debt has got so much bigger? I find this fact really puzzling.

pogs Labours team, 2 barristers and a life time MP. A team that will be able to think on its feet as trained in court procedure.

Tory team? -Johnson - previously a journalist sacked for falsifying information.
David Davis - previously worked for Tate and Lyle
Liam Fox -previously medical practitioner - sacked by Cameron for poor practice as a Tory minister

Welsh.

Tax give always to the wealthy and austerity meant lack of growth so less income into the coffers.

welsh I am completely in agreement - I've always been mystified as I thought this was supposed to get us OUT of debt! If it doesn't, then why would we want more years of the same?

This is interesting information about how the leaders voted on education.

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/how-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-and-tim-farron-voted-on-education/

Angelab and Welshwife - you need investment to get growth. You can get it by direct investment or you can get it by in investing in those with low incomes as they keep the economy moving. They have to spend the money as they can't afford not to so it goes into businesses which can then invest.

If you invest in tax cuts for the richer part of society the money tends to lie dormant and not be used for investment.

I thought it was interesting to hear Polly Toynbee say on today's Daily Politics show that she didn't think the Labour Party are talking about spending any more than the Conservatives are spending on Tax Cuts - which seem generally for the rich and large companies.